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Hello everybody, just got back from my trip :)
I like Philipp’s percentages, sounds reasonable. Currently what we have is around 20% for each season on youth academy and around 10% in the following seasons. So we could have 3 different scenarios:
-youth player leaves academy on 16: he will have 20% when he is 16 and 10% in the following years – reaches maximum with 24 years old
-youth player leaves academy on 17: he will have 20% when he is 16 and 17, and 10% in the following years – reaches maximum with 23 years old
-youth player leaves academy on 18: he will have 20% when he is 16, 17 and 18, and 10% in the following years – reaches maximum with 22 years old
If we change to age-based instead of youth academy based we could give around 15% of potential per season until 19 years old (and the player would earn 1.5 times the regular amount of experience points from matches), so when he turns 20 we’d have around 60% of his potential already given. For the following seasons the player receives around 10% of his potential per season, reaching his maximum from 23 to 24 years old, in the average.
to underline my opinion of a higher improvement in the first years i’d like to do an example:
- a 16yro youth starts in your academy with 70 in shooting
- let’s say he has 20 points potential (at the end he’d be 90 in sho)
- with training, friendlies and some official matches he improves 60% of his potential in the first 4 years: with 20yro he would have 82 in shooting
- the last 40% potential points he earns in the next 4-6 years (24-26yro)
- exceptions (~1-10% of all generated players) from the norm could be: reversed improved (strong improvement when gets older), improvement till 30 yro, no improvement after 20yro, etc …
in summary: that’s not too much improvement in the first years, but they still would reach a decent skill level to support a minor club etc. – isn’t that more realistic?
well… sly, thats just my opinion… i am not going for a personal battle out here… it should be more of consensus… let other players raise their voices too… if everyone agrees with you, i don’t have any problem with that…. but it seemed logical for me that younger players improve faster than the established ones, like they do in real life. nothing more to say in this post from my side :)
cheers…
well that’s good! That was the point of the entire youth system change! There are to many superstars right? Well…. let things go as they go now and this will deffinately happen. Problems solved…..
Hopjes, we are not saying lets improve younger players astronomically. What we are saying is, let the players improve more than they are doing currently, especially when they are in their teenage. if you calculate properly, that period is only around 3 to 4 seasons from 16 yrs to 19 yrs.
If this is not the case then, no one will develop youngsters, mangers will continue investing in well grown players, which means after some seasons, we will run short of players to replace the current ones. And watch this space, at that time everyone will demand the same thing that i am asking right now…
Sorry Parag, I’m not agreeing with you. You say “improving players is much more fun”. Well that’s your opinion :). I think both things can be enjoyable. It’s nice to see a young talents grow, but it’s also nice to find just that right player for just that right price who some how got missed by all these other big teams. Also you say “otherwise I don’t see how litte lower ranked teams can improve”. Please…..I won the league in my 3rd season with a team that just got promoted. I made it to the semi finals in the UEFA cup and the year after I held my own in CL vs some of the big teams out there like Benfica and Getafe. Last season even Lyon WON THE UEFA CUP!. This shows you don’t need the best players to do well. Those tactics are there for a reason Parag. I say keep things as they are now. Don’t forget when it comes to talent there is a fair amount of luck involved. You will never really know if a player will get very good or not.
Hey that’s my guy ;)
I personally think it’s a good thing they grow much slower. This will make the game more realistic, since sometimes players do get better at a higher age and sometimes talent gets wasted. Also economically this could get things more stable.
I’m experimenting with the youths for myself now, I’ve stopped hiring other players except for my own academy.
So Sylvain I’ll back you up.
i don’t agree with sly. improving players is much more fun than buying a well established.
if the idea proposed by danilo goes ahead, then, we could go and buy some players aged 17/18 on the free transfers list and develop them to good players. That way teams on with less funds and on the lower end of the table could get more chances of upsetting a well established teams. otherwise i don’t see how the lower ranked teams can improve.
currently there are so many players on free transfers list who will never be given any contracts, who knows things may change. but this should not happen to players who are above 19. (teenage should be the maximum limit)…
For e.g. i bought this player Geoffrey Tesson on free transfer last season as a 17 years old . He has already improved 13 points in around 75 turns. at the same time his main skill has gone from 79 to 82 which is decent for a 18 year old lad. Now, if someone thinks buying players on free transfers is cheating (as i have read some posts) then, so be it. but then with my team income being lower, i only have one way to go forward. and it only natural that player improve more when they are teenager. now if anyone sees anything wrong with that, then it is because they want to have their monopoly in the league.
By the way, please let us know (using the forum or our email – admins at rubysoccer) everytime this happens. It will go back to normal much faster if we interfere.
cheers!
I don’t agree…. it will create a lame spinoff effect that it will be harder and harder to sell people above 20 year old players. I think it’s nice to see 21 or 22 year olds suddenly increase greatly. I’m not likeing this idea at all….
I don’t think you can. Logical right…if you are a team in real life and you don’t win, why would sponsers be intrested in sponsering you. The sponsers want to be ascociated with a winning team, not a losing team :)
It may happen sometimes. It should be ok now.
cheers!
Is it just me, or is the site really slow today? I’m getting really long and annoying load times. Do other people have this aswell or is it just me?
i think managers should have the luxury of deciding the selecting the team to which they should loan out their players to…
Today i was forced to do what i would never do while selling a player or which i think is not good thing for a team manager to do…
The coaching dept at the team which wants to loan my player is at zero ( 0 ). And my 18 year old lad has a very good future considering he is already at 82 on his main skill… so, i didn’t want him to go there as he would take more time to reach his maximum.
So, i sent him a message asking him to improve his dept before i could load one of my prized assets out to him. then i had no choice but to remove his from the list.
what is the best way to increase sponsors income, especially when wins are difficult to come by???
i would love that… this is an even better idea…
Ah thanks a lot ! Of course, there should be a chance that attackers with higher control will be able to play one-touch ! I appreciate your time and work ! Waiting for the tweaks to come ;)
Alban, we do understand your points.
Considering that we really simulate the match (we could have the result generated statistically instead – but we don’t want that), the match engine is something really sensitive. So “mistakes” are oftenly in fact something that is quite difficult to achieve in a simulation and will require great amounts of time from us to get to a very mature level. By the way, we are willing to invest those amounts of time.
We have a number of tweaks we want to implement in the match engine and your suggestion is in fact already there. There is a chance that the defender have time to react (that shouldn’t always happen or we would have another unrealistic thing implemented). What we might do is adjust that chance.
Other than that, we will implement cool things very soon, and during the implementation of those new things, we will sure do our best to get the more realistic match engine we can. We will keep you guys posted.
cheers!
I am pretty sure that the extra experience is based on the youth flag. And yes, they get released based on random factors. But the age maybe an interesting factor too… Here is one more idea:
- 3 x the experience for youths
- 2 x the experience until age 20
What do you guys think? The numbers might not be exactly those, but the idea is to give more experience to youths and also more experience to players before a certain age, even if they are not youths anymore. (not cumulative multipliers)
Hmm, I am only worried about making things too easy – this way it could happen that some managers don’t even log in rubysoccer anymore, as every problem would have an automated solution!
cheers
Well, I don’t believe that is the case… But it could happen, as sometimes for example Gabriel implement things and forget to tell me or I forget that he told me (or vice versa) :D. I will confirm with him later (he is on vacation).
cheers
Danilo, sorry if my words upset you ! But I think we all understand that the match engine has some serious mistakes. Our players shoot on goal as crazy, most of the shots are because they play one-touch, not letting the defenders make tackles in time. This also (I think) forced the developers to make the GKs very…incredibly strong, because 23:15 looks more like time for drink than a real football match score =) And this also makes weak clubs play better than they would do. Because 30 shots and only 1 success is unreal. So my suggestions are:
- add time between receiving the ball and making a shot (enough time for the defenders to at least try to react)
- make the GKs weaker (first step will make less shots on goal performed)
maybe you can at least try it on some test machine ?
thanks !
fair?? i am always losing away and drawing at home… and i haven’t been able to understand how this game works…
if you check on the “improvement discussion” thread of announcements section gabriel has said “I started with the youth academy cause I’m afraid of superstar youths all over the world as we used to have. Let’s see how it goes, 19 should be fine as well.”
so, i was thinking age 19 must have been the cut off point… and 19 is reasonable too… that encourages managers to give contracts to young players available on free transfers…
that is on page no 7
i don’t think that it should depend on status (youth academy) but on age.
[players get released from academy on random factors and not based on their achieved improvement points, right?]
By the way, if we were able to select 2 persons for each place in the formation, we would have less problems if the main player got banned or injured !
but i dont know why this should be a priority for the system developers, when we already have option of creating formations and assigning them to each turn…
real life managers do not have this luxury, so, i don’t think we should have it…
and moreover this will never solve the selection problems as players can get injured and get banned for next matches due to other reasons. and you can never have entirely different sets of players for friendly’s, league and cups to choose from…
and i believe i read somewhere, that having elder player in your team increases the stat of other team players, if that elder player is selected for that match. i don’t know where i read it, but i believe it should be some of gabrielo’s post.
since i am not able to find it, i just feel totally lost.
Interesting ideas… This topic may result in a nice feature, let’s see how it goes!
Youths are the ones marked as youths in your player list. The age doesn’t matter.