Dont know if it’s just me but i think the way youth players grow now is way to slow, in my opinion it should go much faster and they should develop more from friendlies when they are still in the youth academy.

they need to grow more in order for me to play them in first team, so as i see it they need to develop more the first 2 years.

what do you think?

/Jakob

in general: should grow faster in the first (3) years, slower (less) in the next years …
in ~1-5% of the cases much faster (and reverse: slower) progress should be normal

Interesting…we could make it faster for youths I guess, sounds reasonable.

I think then you will get the same problem again. I don’t agree here. If you get players from 70 stats to 80’s very fast, then you can loan them to the lower teams. When playing the officials they will increase very nice. I think this should be the challange. Besides….I don’t think with the current level of players it will be a loss if a “superstar” is lost…..

There is a thin line here Sly, you’re right about this risk. We’ll think carefully about it before changing anything in the current system :)

i can’t agree with sly fully though…
if you have a good young player and if you can loan them to others who are willing to take him, then what is the problem. And besides this doesn’t happen in every case. these are some exceptional cases, where you have some exceptional young players. And that happens in real life too.

Although i said i cannot agree with Sly fully, i agree with him partially.
So, what we could do is, may be out of 20 development points a player has, the youth development could be made faster for the initial 5 (or 10) development points. Now we can argue on the definition of the term “faster”. It could be 2 points (or 3 points) for every friendly played, 5 (6) points for every league/cup matches played and so on…

But we can still discuss more and come to a more agreeable solution, if this is debatable one :)

You misunderstoud me here Parag. I didn’t say there was a problem by loaning a good playerto a team. A lower team will never loan a player with 70 stats. Getting a player from 70 to 80 is the hard part. I think this shouldn’t be made easier since then we might get the same problem as before. To many great players. I still also think it’s not bad to “lose” a superstar on free transfer and have him eventually quit football because nobdy wants him :). We can handle a few losses with the current level of great players.

Sly, may be u didn’t read my whole post …

Let me follow up on this, i understand the fear of an overflow of good players, but as the system is now we dont get better players they just develop their first bit a bit faster.

I received a youthplayer turn 98 last season with a starting value of 240571 he was 72 in shooting so he looked a bit promising, now turn 71 the season after his value is 305.717 and his shooting is 74 this is after he have played:

76 friendlies
3 1. division matches
2 CL matches

My coaching is 10.

I just think this is waaay to slow 2 points in 1 year after that amount of matches it may be to little to go from but none of my other youths have developed as well.

One of the things i love about games like this is developing good youth players, but after the change it seems impossible. As it is now you need to keep a player in your team 10 years to find out if he has potential.

Exactly, jakobk has hit the bulls eye with his post.

My coaching is also 10, and after playing 37 games ( 36 friendlies and 1 league game) my 17 yr old kid has following developments (after 1 season)
Passing => 2
Speed => 3
Dribling => 1
Control = > 2
Header = > 1

But he is a defender, and i am surprised to see that he hasn’t developed a single bit on his primary skill.

May be i am just crying sour grapes, but then someone could advise me.

And he is the one who has grown most… i had to let other guys go because of lack of development.

And to add to that… i have another youth player who is 18 and has not improved any stats on any skill in 28 matches ( 1 league game and 27 friendlies).

I have maintained an excel copy of players statistics after every tick. ( well, except those ticks which occur when i am in sleep, but almost all).

Very wll put guys
im glad i read the forums a this confirms why i dont need to risk drawing a league game etc as the correlation between youth growth and risk seems to be close to zero.

Jacob, i agree one of the great things of these games is developing youth and finding the occasional bagain etc.

I’ll try to come up with a better improvement rate for youths. As soon as I have something concrete I’ll post it here.

Thanks for listening
ill hold onto all those 17yr olds then
LOL

Yeah i think one of the major points here is that they should increase more while they are in the “youth academy” atleast they did in Soccersim. The period of time they are in there should then maybe be changed so it goes from 3 months to 2 years or whatever is needed. After they leave “youth academy” the normal rules should apply for the remaining points they have left to develop. It makes youth players boring when they dont grow, much easier to buy more developed youths and spend valuable game time on them instead.

As i see youthplayers they should give an early signal on if they are worth counting on or not.

I am glad to hear you will look into this, because youths have went from the most exiting aspect in this game to the most boring.

/Jakob

well said…
guess there is nothing more to add from my side…
waiting for the improvement though…

i totally agree with jakob

i have a young lad who has played 12 friendlies 3 league premier games and rated 10

scored 18+ goals and is 17 with 80 shooting but isnt gaining anything since i got him

sory 25 goals.

he scored an avg 3 goals a game in friendlies

Youths improving very slowly (Copied from Suggestion Forum)

Avatar Alexander 5 post(s) Feb 3, 2009 2:04pm
Hi guys,
I know the way the players improve has been changed and i generally approve of this. I’ve noticed that my youth players doesn’t seem to improve at all, even though they play a lot of friendlies. I understand that with the new system, friendly matches doesn’t give that much experience any more, but this way there will be almost zero chance of developing new youth players!?
I find it a bit unrealistic that the young lads improves this slowly. I will use my own player “Davide Brollo” as an example. He’s played 22 friendlies, 3 serie A and a single cup match and has improved perhaps i skillpoint in total!? If this is the way it’s going to be, i’m worried that it will be extremely dificult to culture new youths.
Kind regards and thank you for such a wonderful game.
Alexander

Avatar Gabriel Cesario Administrator 1,602 post(s) Feb 3, 2009 4:56pm

Thanks Alexander!

We have received some complaints about this and we think we can improve the system. Youth players should improve a little bit faster, making it easier to tell whether or not he will become a good player. After being promoted to the regular squad things could go back to the speed we have now.

Cheers!
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Avatar Luc Blomme 35 post(s) Feb 8, 2009 2:35am

Gabriel
I see all sides to the story here.
My two bobs worth
In real life we generally can see an individuals skills and traits. Its not as common that mature age people step up another step, except for situations where they had talent but due injury, opportunity etc.
This game is vgood but it does fustrate with the lack of movement with youth players. Im not asking for the game platform to make it too easy to see who is a runaway star, however atleast a solid player can be seen BUT would like some more regular movement of primary and secondary stats to reward league/friendly and training efforts. You may allow more movement in specific stats asto elude to potential with the risk that a few more years training/playing he could be a possible star etc
Maybe add a section to coaches that allows you to individually try and train a player on a skill you require. This may effect the overall stats but helps you target weekness in your team and mould as a manager what you need. Maybe a long term vision enhancement.
But definetly for now it would be nice to see that most stat increases are achieved by early 20’s and loss of statistics in early to mid 30’s. This may first start with a dropoff in sec stats like speed/control etc as that is more realistic. Stts increasing later into your 20’s is not really great as the player has a shelf life.
I can bearly catch my kids now as my 38yr old legs have had a hammering from Australian Rules Footbal and Tennis but my brain still works, just!
LOL
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Avatar Davison 16 post(s) 10 hours ago

my player is 16 yrs old 80 shooting 70 most of the rest
his name is kevan… he has scored 56 goals in 22 games in friendlies
his skill doesnt up or improve
its becoming to be bs trying to develop players when they should be developing when they get playing time and scoreing like my player is.

Avatar jakobK 12 post(s) 1 hour ago

In my opinion 40-50% of a players potential should be possible to reveal during “Youth academy” time if thats obtainable of course depends on matches played, quality of coaching and time factor the only get the “boost” when they are in the youth academy after that its normal development.
Just my idea on how to do it :)
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I’ve just changed the system, check this topic in the Announcements forum.

thanks gabriel :)

Could you try and tell us something about how much is needed for a skill-up my players are still stuck at their starting skills my most promising youth player with a value of 649.000 and 75 shooting has played 2 cup games and 20 friendlies and no skill up at all, it seems like something is fundamentaly wrong with youthplayer improvement, please give me peace in mind about this, since i still think you totally ruined the youth player aspect of the game.

With coaching 10 your youth needs around 15 experience points for each improvement (sometimes more, sometimes less). With 2 cup games he earned 6 points and with the 20 friendlies he earned 40 points, a total of 46 points. As I’ve just checked he is almost improving again, he must have improved twice since he joined your team. Each time he improves he earns from 1 to 6 points to be distributed among his skills, so he improved from 2 to 12 points so far.
I think we could wait a little more before changing it again, but if the general feeling is that the system is ruined we can certailny do something about it :)
My first suggestion would be raising the minimum number of points earned during an improvement from 1 to 3…or maybe increasing the odds of earning more points for youth players. Any suggestions?

i have seen a little bit faster development with my youth players, that is for sure.
but as gabriel had informed in the announcement that every youth players would receive 2X the points received by other players for each type of game, i found the above statement a little bit confusing.
For 2 cup games, shouldn’t that be 12 points, since he gets 6 points each for a cup game ( 2*3 points for cup game).
and thus with 40 points for 20 friendlies, that should have been 52 points in total.

On a separate note i have a question. i always have a feeling that system tries to improve the secondary skills more than the main skill. For e.g., i have a midfielder who has developed pretty well on all the skills except his primary skill… his passing is still 84 since turn 61 of 19th season, whereas at the same time his shooting skill has jumped up 10 pts from 76 to 86, heading from 80 to 88 and speed and ball control also have had fair rates of improvements.
And if i were to compare his improvement since the time i took over the club, it goes this way :
Tac 3, Pas 4, Sho 13, Spe 7, Dri 0, Ctr 6, Hea 8

Do you think this is even development? or this is just an one off case… or is it just normal that players have their own development pattern

PS: for future reference, currently it is turn 41 season 20th.

wasn’t it 1 point for friendlies, 2 for cups, 3 for league … ?
currently i’m ok with the improvement of players. Did you already implement a higher and faster impovement rate for younger player under 20 yro?

indeed philipp, it is still the same points system. but in case of your youth players, they will receive 2X of the points allocated.
for eg, a normal player would receive 1 point from friendly but for the same friendly youth player would receive 2 points ( 2 * 1).

i am sure all the youth academy players are youth, but i am not certain if players till 19 are still considered youth (when they go out of academies).
gabriel has given a hint in the announcement forum about the definition of youth, so i am considering players till 19 yrs are youth.

He did indeed avance as you said he would :) i agree to give it more time before changes are made.

Youths are the ones marked as youths in your player list. The age doesn’t matter.

i don’t think that it should depend on status (youth academy) but on age.
[players get released from academy on random factors and not based on their achieved improvement points, right?]

if you check on the “improvement discussion” thread of announcements section gabriel has said “I started with the youth academy cause I’m afraid of superstar youths all over the world as we used to have. Let’s see how it goes, 19 should be fine as well.”
so, i was thinking age 19 must have been the cut off point… and 19 is reasonable too… that encourages managers to give contracts to young players available on free transfers…

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