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How about the idea (slightly borrowed from FM) that when you sign a player you can offer them a certain squad status. The squad status would then relate to their morale level. So if you sign a player and say they will be a first team player then never play them their morale will go bad very quickly, but if you signed a youth and said they’d be a squad player or a potential future player their morale would go down at a much slower rate from not playing.
At present it appears that morale is implemented on a linear scale, having different squad status’ would possibly make this more manageable for managers.
That’s because they evaluate the last x matches, starting from when I last reset morale (or from when you or they joined your team, whatever is later) and up to a pre-determined number of matches, but they only change morale for the first time after 3-5 matches, so even if you played them in the last match it could mean they played 1 out of 5 which would give them a 20% match participation ration that could take their morale to bad level depending on their profiles.
I’ve players that have played last game, and morale has gone bad. why?
Glad to see this back to life after trial phase 2 started. First of all let me reinforce that nobody is at risk of losing their players during the trial, they will still renew their contracts even if they are at Critical morale level and I doubt anyone will pay the transfer price currently being set. That said I’ll give my directed responses as usual:
@midcheshire: don’t worry about losing players just yet, we will announce when morale is there for real and reset the values once again. Regarding friendlies…no, they don’t count for morale.
@Joseppi: from a starting point (when morale is reset or a player joins a new team for example) it takes between 3 and 5 matches for the player to first evaluate his match participation and his morale to move accordingly to Good or Bad and it takes between 7 to 12 matches for the player morale to go to Critical if he has not played enough in that period. From that point onwards each match will be included in the calculations and the morale may change after every match. Remember this is done as “percentage of last x matches that I’ve played”.
@Filipe: took the words from my mouth…or from my fingers in this case
@Northstar: as I’ve pointed out in a different topic and poll, there are too many good players so I think most teams end up hiring instead of loaning. I’ve changed the player generation process to rectify this, but it will take some time to see the results as existing players start to age. CPU teams may loan some good players but then we may have another issue related to how they evaluate if a player is good for their squads…this is going to improved soon.
Is this second phase of the trial any better? I feel I’m able to control morale a bit better…I still have 2 critical players that I wish were not critical but that’s because I didn’t setup my team properly over the weekend and used my default formation in most matches. I still have to field some really unskilled players from time to time so that they won’t go to critical, but that should be ok.
I have some additional ideas to put in place (apart from what has been suggested already) but I want to have further feedback before either starting the morale for real or starting a trial phase 3.
Morale is still under trial, that’s the only reason why the players accept renewals and the transfer prices are silly. Once we are happy with the parameters and the trial is over the transfer prices will be what you see now divided by 10 and the players will NOT renew contract. You’re right, that’s the whole purpose of the thing :-)
Not sure if this is a bug or just how morale is implemented, but I believe that something is wrong/incorrect.
A player with critical morale automatically gets listed for a silly price (which is something I dislike, but that’s another story). However, if a player has critical morale and is listed, but their contract is running out, you can still get them to re-sign for you. Surely this defeats the whole purpose of critical morale levels? If I’d not played any games and my morale was at a critically low level, why would I sign a new contract?
If this were to be implemented in a slightly better way, managers would actually have to manage their squads and if they failed to do so, players would leave or want to leave and this might finally spark the transfer market into life as managers would be forced to sell players that they probably wanted to keep as squad players. Therefore the more active managers would be able to make offers for players that would otherwise be unavailable and possibly we would have an active transfer market.
Id happily loan players out however no club ever wants to loan my players even when they have good stats!
I really liked both player morale and contract renewal changes. It makes player relation to the team more challenging, before this we could say players were like robots, used them as we wished and they would always behave the same…
In real life, if you dont plan to use a player, you either loan or sell him, in RS we can do this any time in the season…
Yeah there’s def still improvements to be made, morale changes far too quick most of the time.
This morale rule is horrendous, I am going to be left with no decent squad players, two more want to leave, I had to loan out some of my squad. How are you supposed to keep up and coming players and field your best team also? Not for me I’m afraid. I can understand if these are playing no games at all, surely the friendlies must count for something? I will have to use youth players for injuries and red cards :(
@Davison: the last couple years don’t count, we did virtually nothing on them
@Sniff: this is a result of the poor way in which the board evaluates your squad in comparison to the others. In your case your team seems to be highly rated by the board, as a result every victory gives you a little bit and every draw/loss takes a lot, making it too hard to recover from a bad board rating. What I’ll do is I’ll bring forward the task to review the way squad quality is calculated and see if that improves the expectation and performance calculations. If it does not or is not enough I’ll bring forward the task to revisit the way the board evaluates the performance until we get it right.
Thanks for the feedback guys.
dont hold your breath ive been bringing this very topic up for years
6th in PL, top of Europa Cup group and still the board hate me. (Fast ticker – Blackburn)
Your Performance: 3%
This is ludicrous, please can we look into improving how the board view the manager? I mean if I was bottom of the league and out of Europe it would be fair to be at 3% or below, but once you get to a low % of approval with the board it appears to be virtually impossible to please them.
As I usually say, the rules are the same for all so you’re not the only one losing players. That’s not to say the rules are good as they are, it’s just to reiterate that nobody is being treated unfairly. The reason to introduce such change was to make contract negotiations something to give some thought about instead of simply offering any wage to start with and wait for the player to reply. There is no fun in that at all and it is also unrealistic as the players had very little say in the process. Now if you give him something that he consider far from his expectations he will have a say.
Morale was introduced as a trial exactly for this reason, so it doesn’t negatively impact anyone while it’s being tested. Unfortunately RubySoccer is not our real work at the moment so we cannot invest as much time as we’d like to thoroughly test all new features. We rely on live tests more often than not.
A new investment area has been added: Negotiations. This area of the club will provide you advice on how much to offer a player you are negotiating with. The highest the level more accurate the suggestion. All clubs have the maximum level on this area to start with so they can experience the full benefits of it. Next season you will be able to decide how much to invest in this area as you do for all others. Hopefully this will mitigate some of the negative impacts of the enhance player negotiations.
You will see the suggested wage when offering a contract to a player and the wage field will come pre-populated with the suggestion (except when you are looking at an existing negotiation, in which case it will come populated either with your own offer or with the player’s counter offer as usual). I am yet to add the suggested wage to the mobile version of the contract offer screen.
I dont even know why uve changed the way contracts are renewed becos there was nothing wrong with the way it was. You started negotiations with an opening offer, they came back to you with what they wanted and u then had a choice of either continuing to negotiate or offer them what they wanted which was then accepted. Now u dont know what they want and if u dont hit on the right number they cancel negotiations and u have no option to try again. That is plain stupid and unrealistic. Yes the new investement area will perhaps help but shud of been implemented with the contract changes so that managers arent loosing players right left and center.
Both the contracts and moral changes should of been tested first to make sure they work properly and fairly rather than just thrown into a live game were they are now messing up peoples teams.
Wrong topic but I can reply anyway. 3k increase is too little, just have a look at similar players and it will give you a reasonable clue. I’m already working on a new investment area that will suggest a wage in the contract offer screen so you have a starting point.
Well yet again ive started negotiations to renew a contract and offered 3k wage increase as my first offer. The player has cancelled negotiations straight away saying im too far away from what he wants even tho i havent a clue how much he wants. Now i cant even try again and so im now going to loose the player! Its really getting beyond a joke Gabriel!!
The parameters for morale calculation have been relaxed a bit and morale has been reset for all players. It was clear from the discussions in the forums and from personal experience that players were being too demanding. I have not yet done any of the suggested enhancements to the system apart from changing existing parameters, let’s see how this works out first and move on from there. Oh, and this is still a trial so you won’t lose your players due to morale just yet.
Let’s see if you need extra levels once I change the parameters and reset the morale, I’m thinking it will be easier to manage. And we are definitely going to add the expectations thing when negotiating with a player, that makes a lot of sense! But that will come in a future enhancement, for now I just want to introduce the system in a manageable but interesting enough way ;-)
I like Joseppi’s suggestion
I also think it is critical to have clear roles for the players by setting expectations – age is far from being enough (and stars level is a good but not sufficient proxy). When you buy a player or renew the contract you set the role the player will have on the team (star, important, backup, youngster) and the morale would be affected by this. This should be fairly straightforward
When in a competitive bidding process, players should choose the team they are going to play in based in a combination of contract terms, team ranking and playing role (this is harder to create…)
My 20 year old players are all critical now and I can’t loan them out cause no one will take them!
Anyway I wanted to make a suggestion.
Would it be possible to add more morale in? Eg, instead of only Good,Neutral,Bad and critical, would it not be better to have Very happy, Happy, Good, Neutral/Content, Poor, Very unhappy, Critical.
This way you might have more time before players become critical and would be easier to manage, although not really easy.
I’ll introduce the Negotiations investment area soon to provide advice on how much to offer a player during contract negotiations. Keep an eye on the announcements in the next few days.
Stars and relative quality are not taken into account yet. When you are on holiday morale will still be calculated the same way so you will have to plan ahead your squad rotation or ask someone else to babysit your team (as long as you let me know in advance). Loaned out players will still have their morale calculated based on the matches they are playing or missing in their loan team and when they’re back the calculations will continue on the owning team as usual, seamlessly.
In the first few years as a professional the player expectations will be lower. They already are in fact but certainly higher than they should be. I’ll do some changes and a reset on morale soon.
An 18 year old player should be happy if he can play a few games in a season, I think?
I think a manager playing the game once a day must have the chance to manage his players morale. With an evaluation after 1,2 or 3 games this isn’t possible. I would make it 3,4 or 5 (at least for fastticker).
Do you take stars into count? A player playing on the same position as Messi or Ronaldo wouldn’t complain as much as a player who knows he has the same qualities.
A player knowing there are a couple of players better on his position?
What happens when you are on holiday? What happens with players who come back after loaned out?
Many questions but we are in a testing phase anyway.
Even though most of you haven’t replied directly to my questions this is great feedback! I’m working on something else and once I’m done I will reset the morale trial with less demanding parameters so we can re-evaluate. I’ll also add some of the feedback below to the planned enhancements to the morale system. Individual replies:
@Samir: good point on stamina, this is not currently taken in consideration
@Joseppi: not sure if we want to wait that long to evaluate morale, I prefer the every match evaluation especially on MediumTicker where a season takes 48 “real” days
@Rui: the first time the player alerts he’s in bad morale he should get back to neutral by playing a single match, that was one of the things I considered in the calculations. If we adjust the numbers though I won’t guarantee that will be the case. To give you a real example, let’s say the player tells you after one match that he is in bad morale and his profile requires 50% of match participation to be in neutral. If you play him in the next match he’ll go back to neutral, but then if you don’t play him in the following one he’ll go back to bad. This is the most extreme example we have at the moment. Restoring critical morale is much harder as the rule is he needs to play at a good morale level just to be back to neutral. Example, let’s say a player is in critical morale after not playing 5 matches and he requires to play 66% of matches to be in good morale. You will need to play him in 10 matches in a row (so he will play 10 out of 15) to get him out of critical and back to neutral. When that happens, the morale is basically reset meaning the history is lost and starts the counter again.
@Sniff: we ddin’t want to pollute the main player skills tab even more, that’s why I’ve added a morale tab. Maybe if we color code the player name itself in the player skills tab it would help?
@Davison: 1) agreed 2) what do you mean by that? 3) we can certainly factor in the match result to simulate the fact that the player realizes he’s not ready yet to be playing if he is losing too much when on field
@Northstar: hopefully we won’t get to that, certainly not during the trial. Once we reduce the demands and restart the trail we can re-evaluate, but we don’t want that scenario to happen!
@Dr. Gullit: they already have a less demanding profile but I agree we need to make all profiles even less demanding. Injuries and suspensions are already taken into account and morale is not reduced if the player was ineligible for a match.
Young players should not be affected by the morale issue in the same way. They are happy with the contract and will wait patiently for any opportunity in the line-up. Another issue is the pace of reducing the morale to bad. Injuries, suspensions, overall team success should be included. Although, participating in friendlies should lower the pace of decreasing morale, but friendlies are not welcome anymore in this game.
So what happens when u dont have any players left to field a full team cos the way its going i wont have any players left becos half my team is being force sold and more will follow!
sounds good gabriel lol you know ill stick through it all… just quite frustrating tbh… thankfully i have managersim whom seem to have sorted themselves out quite well atm…but i still think this game could be better than MS….but needs to add the simular features ms has and expand on it… ill be patient ( but still will voice/vent my opinion)
i dont think a player should complain about being benched if 1) low stamina 2) poor work ethic 3) loses to many games when on pitch
this is why i think a praise system is necessary…as well as a punish system…. play well manager has option of giving that individual player a lil $ bonus check
play shittyass and the manager has option to suspend player from pay…. too many cards….poor performance…ect