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haha, how will you trade them? The game mechanics do not allow swapping players.
This one ought to be interesting to watch.
/BK
Rui, no it is not as simple as you say “economy is what we managers make it to be”, it is a well known fact in these types of games that the economy is ALWAYS a big issue, no matter what the game/genre is.
Having a balanced well working economy in a multi-player environment is ALWAYS a big issue that needs to be addressed or the game will have issues keeping it’s players.
Do we want a realistic game or we want a fantasy game, I think the question goes towards that kind of reasoning.
If I can not buy one more player ever again in this game, I would still enjoy the game. And you can buy players, maybe not the top players at the moment but you can still do good deals. And right, what good is the money if you can not buy the players you want?
That issue can be solved not by rolling back to previous state but building more mechanisms that will force managers to really invest in a core first team, and not keep an army of superstars in the squad. If you don’t want to sell your players ust because you want 400M and people can offer only 40M, then the player will go on free transfer and the wages of 400k/week will be tried, but then if you have the budget for it, you can sign them.
Now, if the game had mechanisms that would trigger other players to demand as big wages as the guy signed from the free transfer, then you would have to think twice if you want to offer 400k/week for a great player and thus risking unsettling the first team. Then again if you didn’t have that kind of check, the wage of 400k won’t do anything else but costing the money, then you are not putting a whole solution, only half a solution.
We really need to see what’s coming an that is the insanely big wages offered on free players as no one will be able to pay several hundreds of millions that managers will ask for those.
BK
“I think we’re all in agreement that the changes to the economy were needed”
no Charles, we don’t.
the thing is, before the changes, you had to manage your economy. now, you don’t. one less interesting thing to do in RS
one thing i learned from ss/ms days is that there will always be people complaining about economy. it’s quite simple: the economy is what we managers make it to be. and i don’t know any other way to make it be fair.
there are cheaters? of course. but so what? deal with those you can, ignore all the others.
what’s the main goal to play a game like RS? i believe is to have fun. do we have more fun now? well, i don’t. now i put my team and that’s it. 5 minutes/day and i’m done. i even have time to read the forums these days hehehehe
well, i believe this new system won’t last longer, but, if it does, that’s ok i guess ;)
94 goalie, 23 yrs, available for trade with very good striker.
goalie name: Rufino Baus http://www.rubysoccer.com/game/player_info/346587
Gabriel, the economy changes are great, with adjusted player development you can take the game to the next level.
For the player development, make sure you have a solid model, so we do not end up with superstars roaming around.
Take under consideration the “star” element ManagerSim had, it was a nice feature.
Really think about the players as real people, do they like their state at the moment?
When not played for several games (if player thinks they deserve a regular team place), the morale could go down a lot and when reached a “break point” the player can stop developing, but perhaps perform great. Most people would stop analyzing here, I think you need to analyze further and see how does the manager handle this performance.
If the player is still ignored and not given what he thinks he deserves then, he should really be unhappy and so on.
If you manage to do this right, guys – it could really be awesome game.
I also have some other suggestions about the talent pool in any given game world. I think that should be directly related to the number of real managers playing the game. Keeping it closed like that you will assure the hardware value of the game world not being devalued by having too many of the same players/entity.
How does that work?
New star player will appear when an old star is gone from the system (taking his place).
Who should get this player then (initially, later on anyone with the right money will be able to buy of course)?
I think there needs to be internal lists of rankings for managers that are not visible on the page but read by the game engine to analyze who the best youth-developing manager is.
There could be points unlocked for doing different “mission”.
For example some managers will develop a lot of own players and then keep them the whole career in the club, that can be awarded.
Others will develop youths, then sell them for the economy alone, that could also be awarded but by different measures and rewards.
Some will bring back the player they sold (youth from own club) and let them finish their career in the mother club, that could be rewarded.
And so on. Many rewards unlocked when you do different things, all measurable.
Other things:
- when managers look at a player profile, the more managers look at the player , it should be measured, it could mean a a player is popular, then the player would more likely “grow” star status.
Things like measuring, what a manager does when he logs into the game first, last before logging out, most often, least often, then measure everything to find out what manager focuses on – this really should be kept secret and never told managers that is active though, or it will spoil the fun.
Augmented reality/geolocation aspect, we all are placed in different places around the world. It would be really cool if say you were watching a real life game, in say Barcelona. Then the game could (not too often though) give you perhaps an e-mail from the scout pointing to the possible star player in Barcelona team, that is “mysteriously” put on sale.
I know this is a “multi-player” game but I think it would benefit from considering it as a MMOG really, where you develop your skill-set by playing the way you play, game measuring your actions and triggering rewards after a set scenario is played and objective fulfilled, WITHOUT calling it mission and so on, all done in the background that is.
/BK
I’ll not say too much, I’m on vacations :-)
The scripts from Ulisses weren’t added just because, we simply trusted that those interested in that information would simply use the scripts and we focused on other things. I don’t mind including them in the future and I don’t think Danilo would mind either.
Now, about the whole player development system, I agree it is time for a re-design and that’s likely to be the next big thing to happen. Me and Danilo have worked on a new model but to be honest recently I have been thinking and having doubts that the changes are good enough. Anyway, I will discuss that with him when I’m back, but if you guys have good suggestions feel free to post them, as usual.
Cheers
Charles, maybe but I am sure people would want to try to spy/scout on players, it would generate money..
/BK
Definitely a way to generate revenue BK but considering the game is completely free now, i’m not so sure admins would want to implement it prior to the game going “gold” and being ready to become a paid subscription type of game. but in the event that that happens, i think the admins are clever enough to introduce that kind of pay system. :)
I agree with Filipe. Tehre is tactics and choices to make with the current model but right now, the choice of selling this season to purchase players this season is null since the market is dead.
In tehory though, once the markets pick up, we’ll see this as a viable option towards spending board points in a specific way. (selling players this year to pickup players this year)
You wont get 100% from transfers Berhan, the max you can get is 80%. but even then, why would you want the money if you cant buy better players? This sistem wont work without any benefit from making money, if you have no interest in money you dont need to sell…
Well, I think I mentioned this to the developers or the forums, I am not really sure, but here it goes.
The game would benefit from having paid service options (perhaps through an app), letting you scout a player and see what the maximum potential is.
Another “premium package” would allow you to chose what areas (on youths) to concentrate developing, so they develop the skills that is important for them.
I had a whole bunch of those suggestions, but if you haven’t seen those then those were private mails with the developers for a possible co-operation deal.
Well, a thing to consider anyway.
/BK
^^^
Darren Bartholomew played 27 friendlys, no improvement.
Paul Johnson played 15 games, no improvement.
Frazer Neal played 25 games, no improvement.
Steve Nightingale played 27 friendlys, he improved at game 27…????
They have played full 90 minutes, so why are they not improving.
They are all youth players, coaching 10
I doubt that money saved will be turned into points.
Next season, you’ll have whatever you have and according to the level you have either increase or decrease. I like this solution VERY MUCH.
Now trading is not necessary, and you still can do transfers and make money.
I made a mistake and thought that people will sell a player or two, got my budget to 300M+, the mission this season was to employ/buy, while next season I will try to get maximum back from transfers (100%) and have a lower transfer amount.
This adds strategy into economics (almost turn based, where one turn is 1 season). Se next season is sell only season…
I think this will work for many people..
/BK
The money I save this season turn into points for next season?
Vaughn,
Fast
Treinadores 10 Determines how often players improve
Fisioterapia 7 70% chance of reducing injured players recovery time by 1 turn, every turn
Olheiros 6 Scout searches can be made every 5 turns
Estádio 10 Penalty on visitor players’ skills (including old players): 3
Transfer budget bonus: 30%
Total wage limit 9 $1,721,522
Transfer Budget 10 $315,800,000
Money from players sold added to transfer budget 10 80%
Medium:
Treinadores 10 Determines how often players improve
Fisioterapia 6 60% chance of reducing injured players recovery time by 1 turn, every turn
Olheiros 5 Scout searches can be made every 6 turns
Estádio 10 Penalty on visitor players’ skills (including old players): 3
Transfer budget bonus: 30%
Total wage limit 7 $1,374,934
Transfer Budget 10 $287,300,000
Money from players sold added to transfer budget 10 80%
finding the balance then so far its lopsided towards not good enough :)
and yes im saying impliment that script into the game so we dont need programs but we can keep track of it ingame then
@Davison: Cool i understand what you mean, but just to be clear, i dont manipulate the excel file, its just a dumping ground for me to keep track of a players starting average and stats :)
(lets agree that the players starting value doesnt mean shit necessarily)
also, if what you propose is implemented, won’t it take away a bit from what this game and managersim before it is? Won’t it just become a simple boring game about how long it takes for you to make your player reach the next level? Won’t it take the fun out of knowing if that player of your will actually hit his full potential? Won’t you find it boring to know exactly when a player is done growing for that particular season? This is something that is along the lines of “active” vs “passive” managers in my opinion.
Do you have ulysses script installed by the way Marc? It’s a great tool which’ll allow you to track how often your player stats go up… this tool is indispensable to me so i can keep track of a player who has grown during the season. if you say “i dont want a 3rd party script ruining the game for me” well then this is what you are suggesting (regarding keeping track of player XP). Actually, if the admins embed ulysses script within the game, it would actually make me happy (no more need for the script itself) and it would also curb some of your demands in a way that it would allow you to see if a player has stopped growing during that season…
if admins can respond to this question: is there a reason why ulysses script was never implemented in the game?
@Vaughn: ya it might be :/
If you use team player list plus addon in firefox you know when your player is done for the season, no need for excel.
@Charles, isn’t that just bad luck on your side?
one shouldnt have to use a outside program to play this game
these things should be posted to the manager. next to the player or a whole new window tab in team. labeld Exp gain using a bar system which shows it at what % playerx has gained so much this season for example playerx [xxxxxxxxx/ ] +80% gained or even instead of % actually say player x gained “x” amount of points so far.
im not about to jump on excell and spend way to much time on this game. shouldnt have to. managers need more tools and options
I agree filipe, but just to be certain…
in my opinion, before hand, if you had a player with 67AVR starting. This player, would surely become at least 87avr, with a little luck, he will grow more.
Now, i get the feeling that player progression is more random and that a 67avr player won’t necessarily become an 87avr player. Perhaps only an 85 or 86avr player.
Has anyone been tracking this to see if its true?
I have an excel sheet which i essentially use to dump player ratings when they come out of my academy and i’ve noticed a trend more recently where although a player is hammered in friendlies and officials, they don’t necessarily reach their potential. Again, perhaps i haven’t been subbing my players at the 55th minute mark and have been screwing up somewhere…
Again, it just seems to be that before it used to be “67AVR player starting is equal to or better than 87aVr player when fully grown”
I agree with Berhan abou the cheating thing, as long as we have cheaters there will be cheating :D As long as we have people there will be cheaters, so…
About the transfer thing, some changes already planed will probably make the situation a little better. If money from previous season turns into points people will have some more incentive to make some extra. Also by removing or updating the transfer limit price there will be a price you can actually pay for those top players…
Right now it is true, 300M means nothing… That´s something makes me believe there are still cheaters…
Sorry for the double post but Berhan theserves an anwser here:
“I think also the question that bugs me is: can I play the game optimally without having to do all that xp calculations on excel and so on.”
I consider myself to have a nice carear here in RS, I never used those calculations or excel. I also consider myself a good talent finder, the two things I know about this in the game are:
1 – player improvement is incertain
2 – the best a player is when he starts the more hods he becomes great
knowing that you can make some other conclusions, for example:
- If you have 1 nice skilled “starter” you have some probability he becomes great (I have no idea how much that is)
- If you have 30 nice skilled “starters” you have a higher probability one of them becomes great
Hope it was helpful :D
I dont know if this is correct but I’ve been playing with the logic that player ratings are based on the number of attempts and successful tackles, passes, shots, goals, cards, etc… You can find all that information in the table bellow the match report (I pay much more attention to those then the first). The logic can be improved it is certain, but still, with no other personality tipe factor in place you must know all that matters are skills, stamina, tactics and a random factor you cant influence. You take two players with the same skills, in the same position with the same tactics and they will do the same AVERAGE match rating (with average you eliminate the random factor).
About Davison claims, we all know how this goes so there’s no point trying to explain him why he’s wrong, I just hope the Developers have more patience than the most people and make no care of what he says…
Cheers
Charles, are you assuming that every player will think they are a star player and will want either to get a regular team spot or be transferred?
Adding morale could do:
- if player is unhappy he will play better if he gets a chance in the first team (random perhaps), or not
Adding influence could do:
- if influential player is brought, everyone plays X% better for x amount of weeks / a possible youth with star-to-be-chance being generated
- if influential player leaves, one or two of the players that were in player’s shadow can get an extra boost or sudden revival of career.
I think one should really think of terms as unlocking effects when input of some kind is induced on the box called the game. Some effects will be negative, while others will be positive.
I am sure many people mentioned the transfer-windows so I can not take credit but I think it would be a good idea.
amacb, it’s really a choice whether cheaters are allowed to play the game they play or not. I would actually agree with you 100% IF this step was taken to prevent cheaters only. That would have been REALLY bad, but this is a better solution for the game economy mechanism I believe, because now transfers is an option and not a necessity in order to survive (economically). Words well said nonetheless. We all play the game for different reasons and have different goals.
I still think there is too much money in the game, compared to reality.
/BK
Isn’t it abit to fast to draw conclusions already on the new system?
Getting 400m transfer budget is kinda your own fault isn’t it? I guess that’s lvl 10, should have spend points somewhere else if you know the transfer market isn’t good atm. I’ve made the choise to get coaching 10 en low transfer budget and spend all my 50m already. A team that is complete or nearly complete doesn’t need 400m atm, so in my opinion it is just a bad way to spend your points.
Managers just have to realize themselfs that there won’t be any players sold for high prices like before and that most of the managers are still waiting for the end of hte season.
Managers deserve the fruits of their own work. When you start breaking down the distinction between somebody who maximizes their economy and somebody who does not, by saying that playing field to be leveled to accommodate those who do or can not, you decrease the incentive for achievement.
Every healthy economy demands activity.
Better to have a flawed economical model than non-existing non-functional one.
Regarding player game ratings.
I think its normal that players don’t ALWAYS play up to their ratings. IMO its a normal occurrence in ANY sport.
I think the biggest thing is to check player stats on a season to season basis. However, we also have to take into consideration how our tactics are created when it comes time to assessing a players game rating.
I’ll give you my tactics as an example.
Strikers play pretty well in my tactics. But only if they play center. If they play LC or RC, they usually have a lower rating. (less than 6). This is why i put my best striker at center and not on the wing. I know that even if i have my best striker on LC or RC, they might score more goals, but their game rating will still be lower than the center playing striker.
Mids that play ANY center position, usually play between 5 and 6.
Mids that play the wings (L or R only) usually player a bit higher than my center mids.
Defense typically play around 5-6 except for my DC+1 who usually player a bit better than the rest.
I’ve noticed this about the current tactic i’m using.
I also have a 2nd, center-concentrated tactic. With this tactic, the above stats differ.
Strikers usually play center, and usually play around 7.
Mids, all play LC,C or RC, usually play a lot stronger (around 7 or more)
Defense player about the same.
IMO, player ratings DO matter in how well a player plays, but i think tactics really make or break how well a player will play during the course of a season…
Just like in real life, its not just how talented a player is, its also how they are used. this is where tactics come into play. No sense in using a high shooting mid in the defensemid position if his tackle is shite…
I think we’re all in agreement that the changes to the economy were needed. We can also all agree that with a few more tweaks to how players are managed like player morale and such, other variables, will “force” some managers to sell players that aren’t happy and thus would kick start the market once again. Let’s not forget, with player morale introduced, i’m SURE lots of CPU managed teams will also be selling players. If morale is introduced, i’m sure once its implemented, the markets will get flooded with players on the TLs. Not just by human GMs but CPU as well. But the real question is, in the eventuality that the market dies down after that initial flooding, what will keep it from going stale again? Will introducing player morale be enough to keep the market flowing or will it have a 1 time affect and then die down once again? If the latter, what else can we introduce to keep the market going? Other than player morale, is there any other “variable” that can be introduced to the game to allow for the market to continuously evolve and change and be kept active? I think thats what we all want… but let’s all agree that a transfer market can’t ALWAYS be active… Just like in real life, there should be lulls… i think it was either BK or Davison who spoke about transfer windows… perhaps thats another variable that can be introduced… i guess every change will have to be analyzed and see what kind of impact it has. Just like the change that was just made, it became pretty obvious that other tweaks have to be made as the market is dead right now.
Davison needs a game he can win guys, please make a new dimention with only one league and just one team in it…