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Good feedback everyone. I understand the budget as we have now is not really a budget because we create money out of thin air, but it was just a new idea to start with in this new system. We will consider the options already presented among other things in order to improve this situation. Hold on tight! ;-)
I am still no fan of the points system, but apart from that, there are a few things that can easily be improved.
1) The transfer money. As mentioned by a lot of people, if you lose all your money at the end of the season, why would you sell players? My suggestion is that 50% of your money is transfered to the next season as money, the other 50% as points.
2) Scouting needs to be improved, but I understand this will be implemented shortly.
3) Physio should be more important too. The easy solution is to have more (or more severe) injuries, for example double the amount/chance. The question is: does this make the game more fun, or more frustrating (no one likes to have injured players)? Not sure about this, I suggest just to test one season how it works out. Another idea is to have physio influence stamina. For example: level 1 gives 1% chance of an extra point of stamina for each player not playing, level 10 10% (if that seems low: it’s about 6-8 points during a season)
(also I don’t think you should get messages about it, just see it in the player screen as you see improved stats)
4) Wages. For me:
Wage Limit: $870,980
Current Wage Total: $679,523
I have wages at 2, could have done it at 1 too, but that would have given me (I think) 2 extra points?
I checked another team (Feyenoord), about 800k in wages, probably also wage limit at level 2. So I have 15% lower wages, should that not be worth 10 points or so? I have the feeling it’s not balanced yet. Maybe 5 points for every level, starting from 600k?
Rui (and others), the changes are really good, just think about it. You can not build up 1-2Billions and buy 8 superstars per season.
The only flaw with this thing now is people have NO reason to sell if they are going to lose the money at the end of the season. If we can solve that puzzle so people will actually want to sell the players to create other opportunities, then the economy system will be really good.
I’ve called it faulty but it is actually really good, it prevents a lot of cheating, the transfers now make more sense, so again only problem is people not selling because of the money have little meaning if you can not reinvest it before they are gone. I think my suggestions earlier could be possible solutions but we should think this really carefully.
Also and again there is still too much money in the system, removing a zero from everything besides the wages would be more realistic.
/BK
Fillipe, board do make deals in certain clubs in real life as well, so it’s really a decision of game being realistic or not.
In SS you had the BIG Club clause, but that is not the best way to do things.
At this point, big club clause or whatever, something really has to be done, the budget mechanism is faulty by design. Either do it as real budgeting or do something else. Again, for me If I never made another deal for 20 seasons I’d be fine, but for the sake of game being better, this has to be re-considered.
/BK
Rui,
The inflation means money being worth lot less than it used to be, it is already here because people won’t buy or sell the players for any money unless they know they get REALLY high offers and have to make sure they can spend it on same season. So it’s already here in a way.
/BK
Berhan quote: “Rui, it’s not about the amount but more about the principle of how things work.” – that’s what i’ve been saying since the new changes…
Berhan quote: “otherwise you are creating money from thin air (like the American Federal Reserve)” – lol. that’s exactly what happens in RS at the moment
Berhan quote: “you can be absolutely sure that inflation will come!!” – of course it won’t come. at the start of the new season money is gone.
this new system is very unfair: if you sell players, you loose the money at the end of the season; if you buy players, you will have more money to spend when the next season starts.
I’m still not ok with your “Board making deals” thing, but I agree your budget system sounds better than what we have now. It’s more realistic and probably more market friendly than this.
The inflaction argument is wrong though, the sistem we have makes it mostly impossible to have inflaction over a certain level, simply because teams cannot amount that much money in just one season. Even so I’ve seen some 500 and 700M deals already :D
A quick solution could be that whatever money you are able to save through this is stored in a different account/variable, and used for something else, like really doing the mega-big transfers managers couldn’t stop because the clubs decide to overrule managers decision.
it could be used as “shield” factor for club "protecting their player, or “attack” factor of a club trying to get a desired player even if manager doesn’t want to sell the player.
This one is leaning towards my earlier suggestions of being able to buy any player.
Anyway, just some thoughts, and whatever the solution of this, it has to be better than the way it is.
Also this thing effects everyone so it’s FAIR in that perspective, no need to cry about it. I just wanted to make you aware of this.
/BK
Rui, it’s not about the amount but more about the principle of how things work.
Guys, budgets do not work like that, you have to re-think, I am not sure what kind of points I got for those 600M, didn’t pay attention really.
One important point I think about using budgets is to separate the club general funds from the transfer budget.
At the end the budget amount has to be the BASE for calculating new budget depending on levels of:
- Transfer Budget
- Money from players sold added to transfer budget AND
- Money left in YOUR TRANSFER BUDGET, otherwise you are creating money from thin air (like the American Federal Reserve) and then you can be absolutely sure that inflation will come!!
The reason you are not seeing the inflation is because people are not selling their best players because money has lost it’s meaning, fair enough, it can be solved but the way you did it – it does two things:
- creates money out of nothing (inflation will come, wait and see)
- acts as a show stopper to accumulate vast amounts of funds for budget so huge deals can never be made. Stops the big deals at the moment but it will not later on. This has scaled the previous scenarios with huge cash in the clubs to last only one season and whatever happens during that season (deals /buys /sales) it’s only in that window of opportunity. It’s like having transfer windows, only with budgets rather than time windows.
It works for stopping cheating (for a while), and making huge deals, cheating will require some work etc.. But it also prevents the game from working better.
Again, please think again.
1) Transfer budget is to be a percentage of total club funds (not a fantasy number). Stored in an own variable/account.
2) When Club gets XX% of transfers and leaves YY% of transfers in the transfer budget (same season) THAT (and whatever is left in your transfer budget for this season) is to be the base for the next seasons BUDGET suggestion, not a fantasy number or you’ll get inflation soon.
3) When at start of season you decide not to use much transfer funds, that money is to be put back to the Transfer account of the club and to be the base for next season’s transfer budget and again , what’s left in your current season transfer budget.
I think this is so natural to do so never paid attention to this earlier.
You have to take a look at how budgets work really. You have done something else, that is not budgeting, it’s like starting a new mission / level in a game where you get this and that to achieve this and that. Totally different thing than one would expect here, no?
/BK
oh, and let me just quote you in another recent thread: “The new economy changes are GREAT, period.”
LOL. no, they aren’t.
they are totally unfair for the managers who want to sell players to have money to spend on other players. those ones loose all the money at the end of the season.
and what happens to the ones who spend all the money buying players? they get more fresh money the next season.
i see no logic there, but many see it, so i’m probably blind :)
+600m? i lost much more than that lol. it’s the new economic system. the one you like very much, Berhan hehehe. that’s why no one wants to sell. that’s what some guys were saying it’s not fun, but many seems to love it, so let’s play it.
of course the money left can’t stay there for next season. if that happened, the managers who sell good players would be even richer then before, like Gabriel said.
The amount of money left in the budget at the end of season is converted into bonus points for the new season’s investment areas. We don’t want to make it accumulate just to prevent the inflation we had in the old model. In the future we may come up with other advantages for having a lot of money left in your budget when the season ends.
Cheers
I had like 600M plus at the end of the season, is that money gone now?
I thought that money will always be there, and the seasonal budget will be added there.
-———————
If the money is gone, than I think there is a big misunderstanding, budget does not work like that, when you get deficit or surplus on your budget, you decide what to do with it, it does not disappear into thin air.
It would be more logical, that money is always left in the season budget account. So depending on what you gain or lose by transfers and budgeting, it will live it’s own life.
It will be adjusted (added more from transfers/budget) on turn 13 or so.
Also when using levels on “Money from players sold added to transfer budget” the money gained from the transfers (the part that is not inserted into your transfers account) should go to the club general funds account.
That money is THE BASE for the offer board makes you on season transfer budgets.
I don’t see any other logic logical if not like this. Prove me wrong.
/BK
Gabriel, about the paper, get someone at ODESK (cheap) or similar to use a tool for newspaper articles, have templates, read from web for football articles and create say 10-20 templates, rest is dynamic creation of the news paper. It’s worth spending say 100-200 dollars. It’s best to work with the templates, the data collection is easier. Just a thought. You also need to give something back to managers getting involved, people just want stuff for free, not gonna donate/help/pay if they can get things for free. Offer that a lottery will be made between the participating managers, winner will get a extremely promising youth player, or something.
Filipe, what about the BOARD runs over your decision and sells the player just because the OFFER is too good to refuse?
Very realistic. Also THAT GAME is a different game than players not willing to renew, that is interaction between player and manager.
My suggestion is game between you (manager) and club.
amacb suggestions are good, seasoned manager, he knows what he is talking about.
—
About the players not liking the manager, it SHOULDN’T BE TOO random, it has to do with the fact of what kind of manager you are. If you are a cow trader type, buy low sell high type, then you could attract only certain type of players. If you are all about winning titles you could attract certain type of players.
Of course players could change attitude during their careers, like younger players wouldn’t mind to join a “steping-stone” club in order to get a chance of potentially going to bigger clubs, think Ibrahimovic: Malmö → Ajax → etc…
I remember writing an article about different kind of coaches 10+ years ago, here are the types I am talking about:
1) The Hard-Nosed Coach
- believes strongly in discipline
- rigid about schedules
- very well organized
- enforces rules
- uses threats to motivate
- does not get personally close to players
- teams usually well-organized
- good team spirit when things are going well
Negative points :
- Dissension and unnecessary tension occur when things are not going well because of the coach’s inability to handle sensitive players.
2) The Nice-Guy Coach
- players want to play for him
- uses positive means to motivate his team
- often experiments
- his team is relaxed and cohesive
Negative points :
- Characterized as weak because he cannot handle players who take advantage of him.
- constantly worried and pushes himself
- spends hours on preparations
- considers setbacks as personal affronts
- his demand might be unrealistic and his team might burn itself out before the season ends or before crucial games.
Negative points :
- Intense involvement often leads to emotional display, which tends to embarrass the players, the team or organization.
- does not take things seriously
- gives the impression that everything is under control
- he puts little presure on the team
- players do not complain
- players feel relaxed and free to question and often benefit from uninhabited
discussions.
Negative points :
- Too casual about training and produces a team that is not fit. The coach also produces a team that often panics when under presure.
5) The Business-Like Coach
- uses sharp logic and intellect to resolve problems and outguess the opponents
- would sell any player as long as the price is right
Negative points :
- Lacks compassion. He is unable to motivate his team emotionally and has little rapport with players who need his support and attention.
This is very important part in the game, pay attention or it is going to be half-baked thing and people will hate it. Do not be afraid to innovate.
Just my thoughts
/BK
Some very nice ideas here. I’d say the player related ones have a higher priority compared to the improved newspaper. And yes, when we have more types of articles in the newspaper we expect your help again in generating the templates for the different topics. I remember many people didn’t get the idea when trying to help in the past so we’ll make sure it’s better explained when we get back to it.
I like the player morale idea. An improved newspaper would be fun too, but I guess we can partly do something about that ourselves?
^ i like that idea sly, lol transfer rumors in newspaper lol along maybe
with occasional playerx story about how he wants to leave his club.
Don’t forget it also printed ‘rumours’ from teams negociating for players. This was a good way to see if a team buying a player you perhaps missed on the TL yourself.
Some great ideas here, im going off topic and saying bring newspaper back to a good level, i used to love hearing managers opinions on opponents etc in the random interviews that it sent out.
Well you can put in all kinds of reasons and the player go’s through them picking 1. The result however is the same… he’s unhappy and doesn’t want to renew. The reason for it is not that relevant. But I guess for us managers to make it funny, the player could come up with some kind of reason as a laugh :).
player bonuses ect even
ofcourse this is if the player is completely unhappy and requests transfer or refuses contract renewal. but inorder to have such things player moral should be in store
-Homesick
_doesnt get along with : playerx
_does not like you ( manager)
_ not enough games
_has higher ambitions
_family problems
the list can go on each one could have a set degree of severity so the manager can improve that players moral but for some nothing can be done
ideas
have a future contract negotiations be available for any manager for players that are unhappy and shopping the idea of leaving during a transfer window
the board will either agree with the offer or not. the manager sets the price if told the player does not want to stay, so the manager can still make money.
if the manager refuses to sell then the player will not renew a contract and will go to free agency this is my 2 cents
You just reminded me of something interesting Managersim had. In there old players actually had that, that at the end of their career they wanted to return to there home country.
I like all the idea’s actually. Anything to spice things up a little can make it interesting if you ask me
i like the idea of players not willing to renew their contracts. Yes you will hate your superstar to leave but you loose some gain some. It will definitely bring some activity to the transfer market making the game more realistic and playable. All shouldn’t be random though.
Why players ask for transfer or do not renew their contracts?
1-Willing to play for a better team in a better competition.
You have a star player but your team is mediocre or playing in a low ranked country/league- less chance of contract renewal.
2- Not getting enough playing time.
Your team is full of stars. Player is good but cant make the first XI he wants to play-less chance of contract renewal.
3-Player is home sick just wants to return home and play for a team in his home country- random factor
4-Player wants an early retirement willing to play in lower ranked team / league as long as the pay is good- random factor
etc..
all these can be somehow implemented maybe to make things more interesting
just my two cents
The game can work just fine if we have people wanting to sell and people wanting to buy… If I dont want to sell a player I shouldn’t have to, unless of course that player is unhappy and wants to leave (that will eventually be improved) but it shouldnt have to be the need that some “dealer CPU” makes the deal for me. Your suggestion brings the game more to some lonely mode where you deal with your team and away from the multiplayer aspect of this games.
If there are no players for sale we should understand why people are not selling them, and giving them incentives to sell those players. This last changes helped with that, I hope they can prove enough, but it is too early to be sure of that. From what I’ve seen with MT’s Ajax the money conversion to Board points seems like a good incentive, now I think we need to give incentive to people to want those points, getting phisio and scouting more important will contribute to that, and it seems Gabriel is now working on that too…
Cheers
Hello Boys,
Lokk selling a got players for Brazil.
Greats.
I can see were you are going with this and it looks good, however i believe it can be alot simpler without managers losing alot of great players.
Add the big club clause, some young players and great players should insist on this if joining a normal team, even a buy out clause say of ten million etc could be thrown in.
Buy off computer managed teams, obviously they won’t accept every bid but it would be nice to offer a good value for any player in computer managed teams. They can accept or reject as they see fit.
These two changes would definitely spice things up a little.
Ok, all changes in life are natural, even those not sold (accepted) as such.
What we can all do is learn and try to do /get better.
The new economy changes are GREAT, period.
What this has resulted in though and that is more of our ways of being people than anything the new model has to do with, is that people won’t sell better players, just because they think they can not find a good replacement because people won’t sell those players. Kind of “catch 22”, right?
So, in order to make it exciting and fair, I think the implementation for functionality to bid/get any player should be considered. Specially if not many are willing to sell their stars.
So this is my user story:
“As a manager in a club who can afford the best players the game has to offer, I should be able to buy any player I (the club) can afford acquiring.”
The WHY: because you can not do this naturally and also it’s more realistic.
The HOW:
A new department in the INVESTMENTS where you can allocate points for player BIDS/Protection.
That is not enough. For managers who want to protect their players, they should be able to protect few but not all.
For managers who will try to win a “bidding right” for certain player, there could be functionality allowing this.
So if we two new investment areas:
a) player protection (or call it player infrastructure / team management etc)
b) player PR services (or something else)
Manager would invest points in these areas, enabling bigger chance to sign a star and / or protect own stars.
There could be a random factor as well, that in game logic could be “the player choosing to stay” – but that percentage should be low (maybe maximum 20%).
Another thing the game engine should consider is “what is a BIG CLUB”, should we have such a thing?
Or any club with having enough money should be able to get any player?
Those are some starting points. More to come if anyone is interested.
/BK
No buyers for a 20yr old 84 tackling?
Edit: sold!