Recent Posts by Gabriel Cesario
4,164 posts(s) found
Wait, that is not possible…if you make an initial offer, the player actually comes back with a counter offer and you meet exactly what he asked, he will always accept. He can only cancel negotiations if your initial offer is below his minimum expectations (in the initial offer you don’t know what he wants) OR if you continously try to counter his own offers. As I’ve wrtiten in a message to another manager today, a good approach when making an offer is finding a similar player in terms of skills, position, age and stars and check how much he earns…put an extra fat on top of that just to be sure.
As Sniff said, this is about player power, we as managers have been using a negotiation system that was too easy for too long, that’s why it’s so hard to transition. Losing a player should not be as big a deal, it should be an integral part of how the player market works. With the introduction of player morale (hopefully some time next week) there will be an extra level of player power added. This is not intended to cause any grief with managers, we are just trying to simulate some minimal player intelligence and free will.
I’m inclined to create a poll asking about the new system, based on the messages here it seems most people don’t like it, but that can be misleading as the people who like it are not so eager to voice their opinions as the ones who don’t ;-)
Hahaha, some of these are too harsh! Imagine if I have a player that I can only use in half of my games because he won’t play away :-D
@Igi: the players you have with low stamina are playing almost all official matches you’re part of (league, cup and champions league), that’s why they are so low. Players lose 3 stamina when they play a match and recover 2 when they doesn’t. When you’re part of so many competitions at the same time the only way to be high on stamina is rotate your players in the main squad to give the some rest to the ones that need it.
@Davison: yep, we are trying and my strategy was to add new features first (stars, morale, negotiations) and then fine tune existing ones (match engine, player evolution model, etc). The game engine is not as realistic as it should be but everyone plays under its rules and learn and adapt to win. Once we make it more realistic (which is definitely a good thing) people will have to do the same, learn and adapt…of course in theory leaning and adapting on a more realistic engine is more natural.
I could do that, just don’t want to make it too easy so that the new system is useless. I suppose it won’t be as long as we keep item 1 on my post above as it is. Anyone else has any thoughts?
Nothing has changed except for star players that can give a match performance boost. But given you’re saying it is consistent in your matches and not against a particular opponent it is definitely not related to that.
In this particular example he was not upset about the wage offered, but he didn’t want to give you more than one counter proposal. This is another aspect of the negotiations that depend on the player negotiation profile, some of them will only get back to you once and if you don’t match their demands or at least make a close enough offer (how close is another aspect of the negotiation profile) they will also cancel negotiations. In summary the variable aspects of the players negotiation profiles are:
1) Minimum acceptable wage: a percentage of what they really want, any offer below that threshold will immediately cause the negotiations to be cancelled
2) Number of counter proposals: as a minimum a player will always give you 1 counter proposal (assuming you met the criteria above), some will give you more..once you extend the negotiation for too long without agreeing on the wage the player will also cancel negotiations
3) Wage acceptance threshold: this is how the player will accept below his expectations
Real example of a possible player negotiation profile:
1) 50% – if you offer less than half the wage he is expecting negotiations are cancelled
2) 2 – if the player gives you two counter proposals and do not agree to your next offer he will cancel the negotiation
3) 96% – if he expected 10,000 and you offered 9,600 he will accept the offer
Really nice achievement! Paraguay has consolidated it’s second place position in South America now, that’s what I was trying to do with Colombia but it’s pretty hard when you’re playing alone in a country. I’m taking up a new challenge next season and joining a Brazilian team, maybe my next move once I’m happy with my achievements there (or lack of) will be to Paraguay if you guys are still around.
A third of the players are probably being too harsh. The intention was to just stop managers from offering crap salaries just to wait for a counter offer and force the wages to increase overall. But if the general feeling is that this was not a good addition to the game I can easily soften the rules even for the most demanding players.
It is calculated at the end of the season so all players have done all they could to enter our star calculations. We could potentially do a mid-season adjustment to give/take stars based on what’s happened since the previous awards but that could complicate things. In the current system you may rise from none to gold star, but when losing stars you lose only one at most. I’m guessing if we move to a more dynamic star calculation that can happen more than once per season we need to also consider changing the system so that you only gain one star level a time as well.
You performance in the eyes of the board is based solely on two things:
1) Individual match results – if you win your rating increases, if you lose your rating decreases, if you draw it depends on opponent quality…the amount of percentage points it increases/decreases depend on whether you played home/away and the opponent quality compared to yours
2) Final position in official competitions – if you finish above the expected position (or is knocked out in a stage beyond expectation) you earn points, if you finish below (or is knocked out earlier) you lose points…the amount of points depends again on the quality of the opponents involved in the same competition
There are two improvements we can make to adjust these calculations. The first one is to better evaluate team quality, sometimes you are overrated by the board because of that. My team at the moment was expected to reach the semi-finals in the national cup but was expected to win Libertadores. That tells me there are at least two teams in Colombia (that should be cup finalists) that are not in Libertadores that are evaluated as having a squad better than mine! The second one is that the penalty for being knocked out earlier in cup competitions may be pretty high, causing situations such as yours. I’ve faced this on the past when I was knocked out in the first round of the cup and was immediately reduced from 24% to 1%.
Of course other factors could be taken in consideration such as money balance, transfers, etc, but fixing the fundamental points above should already make things better. And fixing squad/player quality calculation would also improve CPU teams hiring/selling decisions. Maybe managers wouldn’t really like that though ;-)
I’m happy to announce that the player morale feature is well under way! The initial profiles and calculations to determine the player morale based on match participation are all ready. Next steps are apply morale effects on match performance and player transfer as well as send messages to managers alerting of unhappy players. Similar to what I did with player stars, I’ll create a new topic in the forums later on explaining the morale system in more details.
Cheers
We have introduced different player profiles with the changes done to the contract negotiations and we’ll do something similar with morale (which I’m currently working on) and skills evolution…in some sense these are related to what you’re suggesting but I understand it is not the same. I like the idea of players having some peculiar characteristics and the first ones I thought about were related to preferences with regards to where they prefer to play or what is the main driver when moving to another team (preference to play abroad or home country? prefer big salary or a team with better reputation?).
I’ll add a task to our list with a link to this topic, so please by all means keep the suggestions coming :-)
Olá Antonio, minha informação estava incompleta. Vi que você mudou a tática individual de um dos seus defensores quando o oponente está com a bola, mas na verdade tem que fazer o mesmo pra quando seu time está com a bola. Ou seja, a regra é que você tem que ter pelo menos um defensor que a todo momento esteja jogando na mentalidade 0 ou -1, ele não pode estar jogando para frente quando o time está com a bola ou sem a bola.
Olá Antonio, analisei sua estratégia para entender o que está acontecendo e a explicação é simples. Na suas táticas individuais você manda todos os seu defensores avançarem, portanto o goleiro fica exposto e o atributo de drible é usado, dificultando a defesa (a não ser que o drible do seu goleiro fosse 100). Por isso chutes de jogadores não tão bons acabam se tornando mais perigosos contra o seu goleiro. Para resolver isso basta que, quando o oponente está com a bola, pelo menos um dos seus defensores de mentalidade 0 não esteja avançado, ou seja, com tática de jogar a posição (play position).
Espero que isso ajude!
Poll about player skills reduction is now close, here are the results:
28% Yes, go for it!
9% Yes, you can reduce 10 points if you want.
8% Yes, but I think you should reduce only 3 points instead.
21% No, leave it the way it is and fix in the long term.
28% No, leave it the way it is and don’t change anything.
6% No answer
45% of the managers would like to see some immediate changes in player skills whereas 49% don’t. As far as fixing future players, 66% of the managers would like something to be done (all the ones that would like an immediate change plus the ones that would like future changes only) and 28% think things are good the way they are. Given these results I have slightly reduced the spread of player skills and reduced the odds of lower ranked countries generating players that have high values in all skills. No immediate changes for now.
Thanks for participating!
Thanks Dimitri, I forgot to answer that part of the question. Your guess is right, the exact number is 37 turns. No harm in revealing this I suppose.
Our host will go under maintenance this Thursday, September 10, at 3:30AM UTC (roughly 64 hours from now). They expect the downtime to be no more than 30 minutes but in the worst case it should take 1 hour. Fortunately for us the maintenance window does not include any tick times and will happen during the afternoon in our time zone so we will be able to do a sanity check once RubySoccer is back to make sure the tick schedule is alright.
Cheers
We know it can be a bit harsh some times but not all players will be a pain in the ass. The main goal with this change was to stop people (myself included) from abusing the system and offering a ridiculous wage just to get a counter proposal from the player. It is a controversial area and it will take some time (especially with star players) to gauge how much is safe to be offered to players, but I hope most of you face this as a fresh challenge introduced in the game.
One of the things I discussed with Danilo just today was the creation of a Negotiations investment area that would give a hand when negotiation contracts with players. They could tell you beforehand (with a high enough level) what is the minimum wage you should offer or how many counter proposals would the player accept. We haven’t agreed if that’s going to be the approach, but we’ll most likely do something to give a hand on contract negotiations.
No, that has no impact at all.
Stars are redistributed every season so a player that has no stars in a season may get any star level in the following one, as long as he deserves it. Players that have stars will, in the worst case, lose one level from one season to the next. So yes, young players with no stars may evolve into stars in the future.
Changed the topic subject to encompass contract negotiations as well.
@Dimitri: I’m guessing almost everyone did that (myself included), we’ll have to change our approach now
@Fabio: long enough so that if you are trying to renew a contract and he gets pissed off you won’t be able to renew before he forgets about it. You are right about star players, it is a big risk indeed!
@Joseppi: I certainly hope so!
The new player negotiation model is in place. Next time you make an offer to one of your players be mindful he might not like it and just quit negotiations with you. We have several different player negotiation profiles in place, meaning different players may behave different when negotiation with you. Basically they will be more or less tolerant in terms of how much less from their expected wage they will accept, how low your offer can be and how many counter offers they will accept before getting annoyed and stopping negotiating with you.
Mass messages have been sent in-game as well as a reminder so that everyone is aware. If a player does not want to negotiate with you it means you will have to sell him or let him go (if he is yours) or forget about hiring him for some time (probably long enough for him to go to another team).
Cheers
Ah, very interesting question. The players won’t proactively want to leave just yet, the scenarios to be included soon will be:
1) Your contract offer was too low and considered unacceptable, he won’t renew the contract
2) You rejected his counter offers too many times and haven’t reached an agreement, he won’t renew the contract
3) You let his morale reach a critical level, he won’t renew the contract when the time comes (regardless of what you do)
Yes, even before morale is implemented the new contract negotiation model may cause players to not want to renew contracts if your initial offer is not good enough or if you extend the negotiation for too long (too many counter proposals). After morale is implemented they may want to leave the club (not renew) if they are too low on morale. It will become even more exciting when we allow transfer proposals to non-listed players, but that’s not coming just yet.
We decided to initially implement player morale related to match participation only. In other words, players that don’t play enough official matches will have bad morale and may eventually decide that it’s best to leave the club. We’ll give all the details when it’s released.
In addition to that I’m working on enhanced player negotiation behavior. That generally means that during a contract negotiation players may decide to stop negotiating if there are too many counter offers or if your initial offer is too low (you may hurt their feelings) and may even accept some counter offers that are close enough to what they expected (no more asking for 13010 when you already offered 13000!). We’ll have several different negotiation profiles meaning you’ll experience different negotiation behaviors when negotiating contracts. The main point to take here is that, once this is included in the game, you need to be more careful with your initial contract offer or you may end up with a player that DOES NOT WANT TO RENEW HIS CONTRACT!
You can now see player stars in the scout search results. In addition to that I’ve finished the changes mentioned before were star players will lose, at most, one star level per season and the country ranking will determine the number of star players for the teams of a given country.
I really doubt, I never stay that long in a club :-)
@Dimitri/Joseppi: Completely agree there are too few injuries. We had a plan to add “training” injuries and then evaluate the impact, but clearly that has never made it to the game. Last season I even set my physio to 0, which should never be the case for a top quality team. And age already have an effect on the likelihood of getting injured.
@Sniff: I also agree with this and we have a major re-design of the player evolution model planned that will, among other things, address this. At the moment the players evolve in a predictable and linear way most of the time, this is one of the things we aim to change. This is not next in line yet as we have player morale (yes, it’s true this time) and enhanced contract negotiations to develop first, but definitely a very good candidate for third in line as far as major features go.
I plan to make a couple adjustments to the way stars are awarded to players. The first one is to make existing star players lose at most one star level in between seasons. So if you have a 3 bronze stars player in your squad this season even if he has a bad season he will be at least a 2 bronze stars player next season. I believe this makes sense as stars shouldn’t be completely forgotten from one season to next. The second change is have the number of stars playing in a country be directly related to the ranking position of that country. At the moment the country ranking has no direct influence in the likelihood of a player becoming a star, but if a country is better ranked it means it has stronger and “more famous” leagues and should have a higher number of stars.
Well, well…now that both dimensions have their stars I’m not too happy about the result. I mean, it’s still exciting and something new to think about while playing, but we definitely need to put the country ranking into play here so that things make more sense and we don’t have so many stars in low ranked countries. The good news is I already have a plan to put in action, hopefully for next season.