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I have been thinking about some drastic changes in the economy. We all know how hard it is to balance the money in any kind of game and the focus of RubySoccer is not (or should not) be the economy. That said, my idea was to get rid of the concept of money balance altogether and have the board of each team define the season budget for transfers and total wage cap. These 2 numbers would be based on performance, achieving goals (we could add new goals other than final result on competitions), managing the money well, etc. When you sell a player a % of the value would be added to your transfer budget. This % could also be variable and defined by the board on season start.
We could also have more complex team departments or investment areas. For example, let’s say we have levels for coaching, scouting, physio, youth academy and stadium. These levels would not be controlled the way they are now (where you can increase or decrease at any time), instead they would be fixed for the whole season and the board could give you extra points to spend on whatever you want on season start (depending on your performance in the previous season). For example, let’s say you had a good season and the board gives you 3 points to spend. You could then improve your coaching department 3 levels…or maybe 1 level for your stadium, 1 for physio and 1 for youth academy.
There is still a lot to think about and discuss between us, but basically my idea is to give more control of the economy to the board and let the manager use whatever the board provides to manage the team and focus on squad management, investment decision and budget management.
What do you think? Have I gone too far? :-D
Cheers
I suppose it was bad luck on the random factor. Team performance was clearly not a problem and I doubt player quality would have a huge influence in reducing the attendance.
Semifinal World Cup, match between Brazil and Argentina.
The genie Cristiano Gouveia proved decisive again.
Hat-Trick!!!
Argentina 2-3 Brasil.
It is his twentieth game of the season wearing the shirt of the Brazilian national team and has scored thirty-three goal.
The Dutch league was very exciting this season:
1. PSV 100
2. De Graafschap 100
3. AGOVV 99
4. Ajax 92 (losing against PSV and Feyenoord in the last two matches)
A high level on the top in The Netherlands, but also some teams that will be good in the future, like NEC. And Charles with Feyenoord has a squad with only young players, but already made it to place 7.
I think AGOVV has the best players, but I guess PSV was a bit more lucky this season. I’ll try to defend the title next season again!
Cristiano Gouveia is fantastic.
Maybe the season he is doing is the best season of a player in the history of rubysoccer. Does anyone remember a player who had a phenomenal season so? Even the old Tiger’s strikers had an advantage as the genius Cristiano Gouveia.
Cristiano Gouveia earned every penny that Amac Bilgen invested.
Congratulations on your courage to invest in the player, Amac.
“no game winning incentive for players”
If the problem is some teams having to much money and others strugling to have some I can’t see how that would help, we all can see the most rich teams in the game are the same teams wining leagues and cups… Giving more money to them would be fair in my opinion, but the gap between rich and poor would only grow…
“if i knew that stadiums building didnt do shit for income”
Again, if you have good resuts you’ll have full stadium every league match. If you’re not sure about that you should stop raising the stadium seats at some piont, it depends on how much time you plan to stay in the team and how well you believe your team will performe.
“a team in real lifes income doesnt rest on selling players”
The two gretest portuguese teams (in real life) made something like 100M€ with sells this season. Guess what, they still have major finantial problems…
About the selling to CPU those were the changes and they were made for eveyone, naturaly some got better with it, some didn’t… Personaly I’m more concern with results than with the bank account, most of the time my team has less than 20M just to pay wages :D
I typical example of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect :
“i know wtf im talking about "
“if i knew that stadiums building didnt do shit for income i wouldnt have invested in the uselessness it is.”
and another thing. if i want to buy back a player whom i havnt had for a long time. i think i should be able to. i understand the business between to managers cannot happen more than once a season and im fine with that. but wanting to buy a player you cant after 2 seasons or more should be allowed
tough shit tbh. if you are saying the poor teams have to take a hit then the rich ones should too
the 3 times the bullshit est value is the problem
the games income to teams is the problem
big stadiums dont mean you get money even if sold out yet other selling out teams get more
no cash rewards for winning cups, leagues, ect
no game winning incentive for players to get payed per win if that coach chooses boosting performance
i can go on and on. but the more this issue is neglected the more people leave the game
get rid of the estimated value, cap the market to max selling price of 200m of anyplayer , reset money to scale of stadium size
if i knew that stadiums building didnt do shit for income i wouldnt have invested in the uselessness it is.
a team in real lifes income doesnt rest on selling players. it rests on income via marketing tickets consessions, merch, sponsers, tv, ect ect ect
people were allowed to abuse the flaw for a year now and i told you all that it would end up like this but no i was shunned and told to shut up in so many words
well dimitri my turn is now. i know wtf im talking about your motives only modivated by your own greed and inflated dealings to continue
the excuse everyone else is doing it is also bullshit ( charles) too long for exploited and now the game crash due to deaf ears
Maybe it’s a feature, not a bug, but I don’t understand it. How is it possible that the match between the numbers 1 and 2 of the Dutch league has such a low attendance? Much lower than my other home matches…
http://www.rubysoccer.com/game/match_report/2624916
That won’t fix much 1, and it a much worse solution than doubling the wages, but if money is reset, players should be reset too 2, then you might as well reset stadiums, then you might as well reset the whole game.
I wouldn’t like a game reset though.
1 You’ll still have managers bad with money and managers that know how to make money. What you want to do, reset to 100M every season?
2 If not, how is it fair to a club that just sold a 300M player to another club?
then a full server reset of ppls money is due all ppl get 100m end of discussion
People have to think about real life and this game. If i bought a player at 27 there’s no way you should make profit by selling him when hes 30! Once players stats start decreasing their wage demands should too.
No manager should go bankrupt with double wages, if your going broke sell one of your good players, this makes the market move etc.
Things need to change and now that they are people complain, the game needs to become harder to succeed.
I think this change was a good thing, maybe Gabriel hasn´t explained it well… From what I understud players would ask more money from richier teams… So what if you are paying double wages if teams with 500M will pay triple or more… It is realistic and it is good for the balance.
As usually some managers can only see their team, in time this wages would become regular and I think it would help to reduce the rising of prices from the last CPU buying change. Without any change wages will continue to be irrelevant in the game.
Another problem that came up: if you have a 30 year old player with 40K wage, who is going to buy him for this inflated prices and pay such wage?
CPU will not and humans definetly not. So if you buy a good, expensive player at around 27 years old, u can expect it to be a lost investment? If you start thinking he is a weight in your monthly payment, u just drop him off or maybe a fucked up CPU team will buy him cheap and pay him half of this wage, which is a lot of money for its income? This inflation came naturally when CPUs started to buy players. This was actually a good improvement, however I think the way CPU decides for the investment and the cap it pays is the key for what happened.
How can we revert that? Limiting the amount paid by CPUs on players might be a good start (ex: taking into consideration the players actual value and his age). Prices will go down a little bit. For the money excess problem in some teams, it is more complex to solve. We have to think it in a way that will not affect all the game (like the wages thing), but at the same time, will be done in a smooth way. Maybe instead of simply reseting accounts, u can make a credit for these really rich teams, who will receive a better income througout the seasons until the money is paid back. They will still enjoy a better status, because they worked hard for it, but they will not have all this money to spare at one time, since they will have it back in a long term (the money was never corrected by inflation anyways). Taking liquidity from the market is the best way to correct inflation (as well as cutting the zeros – which is the psycologychal solution). Cheers!
I really dont think that make the game more expensive is a good solution. the true is that it is a desperate solution trying to fix some problem, but will create another problem.
The same way that the game is too easy to make money, as it is right now, make you lose the motivation inside the game. do the game in a way that is unfair or impossible to manage just to try to balance the game is even worse.
The teams are increasing their stadium, becoming richer and richer and have no way to control this? of course.. you have no option to spend this money to improve your team, so the best solution is save money and use the game machine to get richer.
Want to fix the money amount without make a distortion and make the game less interesting? create new tools to spend money and get some benefits.
Example?
You have goals from board to be champion on cup, league and international but you dont have the possibility to offer any premium bonus to your squad to put them more motivated for this.
You dont have the possibility to offer a victory bonus per game.
You dont have the possibility to invest money in the professional academy to make your player spend less stamina per game.
You dont have the possibility to invest money in youth academy to work with more youth players.
You dont have the possibility to invest money in youth prospection to increase the possibility to receive better youth and the possibility to get a star player.
the true is that you have a lot of options to make the rich spend their money trying to get more benefits (that is not 100% that he will really receive what he expect) and also make the game a lot more fun without make in the way that seems that those that learned to play the game how he is being right know is the problem and force them to lose more money spending money for the same players than others that dont have the same amount. this is a unfair system.
Making the finals of the CL is easy if you are in a league with only six human managed teams? Strange logics.
I make money by developing youth players and selling the ones I don’t want to keep. And I make money by winning games. And I don’t spend money on big wages, things I don’t need (scouting, physio) and I only put my coaching on 10 when I could afford it. I do spend money on making my stadium bigger. I hardly spend money on buying players.
If you have money problems, even with the doubled wages, you’re doing something wrong. Don’t blame the game, but improve your game.
ya and you make that money by over pricing shit players
the exact problem.
in real life a team with an attendance of 50k a game would make more than this game currently is coded.
the income is bs and im starting to think that this game is just being ruined
i say have a salary cap ( max amount your squad can be combined worth)
OR
increase income
lower the est value of players
create a top limit a player can be sold for. meaning a max amount any team can sell any player no matter his est value
i say max anyone can sell any player should be 200m
do this and game will be fixed
dimitri u manage a team in a mostly cpu managed league …please
“If you have 10 coaches and 3 physios and spending around 60K to stadium maintenance, you will spend 380K”
I’ve stopped reading after that. How many cpu-teams you see with 10 coaching? And why 3 physio? I’ve always played with 0 physio, if I can, so can you.
Now, another example. My midticker team (who made the CL finals this season) has 29 players, Player Wages $327,212. With a smaller squad, 300k per week is a normal amount for wages.
When the wages are doubled, the extra money spent per season would be $14.4M.
Now look at the prices in the player market. Is 14.4M a lot of money? Doesn’t seem so…. I make a lot more than that in a season by just selling players. And I see managers of ‘poor teams’ doing the same.
Is’t the only distorition in the game created by this change between good and bad managers?
Reverted last change on players wages, we’ll now focus on applying fundamental changes to the economy model at once rather than trying to remedy the current unbalance beforehand using such measures. We have a suggestions topic open in the forums if you wish to have your say: http://www.rubysoccer.com/forums/3/topics/2226
Cheers
Thanks a lot for the feedback guys. I appreciate you’ve taken the time to write such long opinions and suggestions. The rationale behind the change was charge more from rich teams, but not from average or poor teams. I knew from the beginning it wasn’t going to be the solution to the economy problems and definitely not a very popular change.
I was hoping to gradually reduce the amount of money available so that when we implemented more fundamental changes to the economy things would not be that unbalanced anymore. Now I see we will have to rely on a hard reset on bank accounts when the time comes. I liked some of the suggestions in this topic and I’ve also had some new ideas.
If you have more, keep them coming: http://www.rubysoccer.com/forums/3/topics/2226
Cheers
Yes, being worked on and always open to suggestions ;-)
Now, My suggestion:
Every Brazilian near to 30 years remember the old economic situation in our country (80’s and 90’s).
The player potential value, the transfer market and the managers money are really inflated.
The income/outcome since I’m playing never changed, and in this way I believe that is not perfect, but is quite fair. If you manage your balance you wont be rich but you can play without any problem and enjoy the game.
The first step I believe that need to remove an 0 from player value and from the bank account from everyone. In this way, we go back near to the reality with the best player in the game for max. 200M.
This first step can be improved after more seasons in order do define the maximum value that one player can be transferred (dont know.. 50M, 100M?? will be defined by GM seting the maximum potential value that one player can reach).
“Ah, but the game will keep unbalanced and I want to balance the money in the entire game”
The second step is define the minimum and maximum value that one manager can have inside his bank account in this moment and set these values in the entire game. e.×. 10M and 50M
“Damn, but I worked so hard to make this money and now I will lose everything. It’s not fair”
The third step is create one option to not make this decision unfair. you can create 2 options to balance this. for those that received money you can create the bank loan payment and for those that you took the money, the bank investment receipt.
How to clear this value and create the possibility to the manager choose what do? define the minimum and maximum number of season to pay and receive this money. e.×.: min 10 seasons, max 50 seasons.
Also, set the maximum value that will pay/receive per week. e.x: 200K per week.
To make it more interesting, you can set many options for this. ex. less time to pay the bank loan, less interest you need to pay. more time you pay, more interest you pay. The same situation from bank investment.
This way, will balance the game, create another option for fun and wont harm or benefit any manager. Not perfect, maybe not the best, but one way.
Gabriel, thanks for your feedback! However, you can see Welington’s good example with the numbers that this will create a big distortion in the game. To illustrate that, now I’m trying to buy a 20 year old player, who has 79 shooting skill and is asking for 16K wage. Since I don’t know whether he is going to be a good player, I will not buy him from the small team (he is too expensive for his age and skill and I’m not sure if he is going to give me any return). This is what gonna happen: the small team will not get the sales money and will not improve squad or stadium, I will not renew my squad, I will not pay 400M in a good player, my players will get old, my country has 2 managers and hardly increase its position on the countries ranking, my youths probably will never reach the top skills, I will have to sell all the players that ask me for an unreal wage, I will stop making money, my squad will suck, my chances of wining will decrease and I will know that there’s not much I can do about it and then I leave. I really like Ruby, but I think Welington is right about the player prices and the way CPU takes decisions on buying players. I made a lot of money out of the dumb CPU decisions. Its easy money and the good players’ prices are unbelievable (because of this inflation). If we want to simulate real life, OK, players make a 130K/week, but clubs that pay this make 600M/year. You can google it. I hope this doesn’t create a distortion and discourage people to play the game. Best, Bernardo
Continuing.
I sincerely believe that my team will be one of those that will take some benefit in this decision to make the players “smarters” and ask very high values to renew.
I can give many examples from other online games that took this decision I had no way back. Even real economic situation examples can be given.
Anyway, this is my opinion. The true is if you want to be one of the top in the game with top players in the market for 500M, you really need to have at least 1 billion to be competitive. Nowadays, 100M is the same to have 10M in the past. you can buy only one player above the average and will be without money.
sincerely and sorry for my words, but I’m used to play online games for at least 15 years (yes, I’m old) and this decision to make the game more expensive is the most stupid decision that can be taken.
in this way, in 5 to 10 seasons, the richest will dominate the game and the “regular teams” will deal with a poor players to avoid the bankruptcy or will do some crazy acts and will destroy many teams for many and many seasons.
Nowadays, the merchandise and sponsors are ridiculous and impossible to balance the income/outcome. you can only be healthy selling players or having a big stadium with a good performance in the season and it’s not common to have an 100k stadium.
Now, putting aside the player market, and considering one team earning around 400k income (that is the standard for average teams) and 50k stadium that I believe it’s much higher than the average in fastticker.
If you have 10 coaches and 3 physios and spending around 60K to stadium maintenance, you will spend 380K. So, if you consider crowded stadium every game you have 500K.
So, considering the whole season playing around 23 games at home:
(400K x 144)/3 = +19.2M
(380K x 144)/3 = -18.2M
500K x 23 = +11.5M
Total Income/Outcome WITHOUT player’s wage → +12.5M
So, to finish the season at $0 balance you need to pay for your players the total of (12.5M*3)/144 = -260.42K per week
My squad with 27 players, 25 from youth, cost me 344.185K every week, that is 16,5M per season and I believe that I have a CHEAP squad. If I double this, I will pay 33M per season that means -20,5M per season. Now, imagine this for “regular teams” with not so much money?? The conclusion is: The rich teams will DOMINATE the game!!
Now, I will open here my bank account and explain how I did this after 46 SEASONS.
Money: $1,361,448,811
I got this team with a bunch of old players, very high outcome, 8 coaches, 36K stadium and around 15M in my account.
after 3 seasons spending the money to get promoted I succeed, but was the worst thing that I did and in the next season I had been relegated with a bunch of old players and almost $0.
I suffered a lot to renew my squad with youth players and I sold many of them very cheap to have some money.. I fought a lot to earn 30M to 50M for amazing players. At this moment, one player with a 100M value could be considered as a top player, and I believe that is really fair for an top player (that is the main reason that I refuse at most to enter in this current overrated market).
After a lot of seasons selling player to have a good money to improve the team, I reached around 80M and started to hire coaches and improve my stadium. Doing this and selling some of my top players to keep an good balance and keep improving my stadium I reached around 200M and I tought that was amazing to keep improving the stadium and keep an competitive squad.
Then started the overrated player values and I started to sell every (sorry for the word) piece of shit for 40M to 100M. And I started to make easy money.
After, we received the bonus to have dumb CPU decisions to buy players near to retirement for, 10M to 20M. So, more free money.
Finishing, you have CPU “investment in the future” and you sell 67~71 average and useless youth players for 10M to 20M. AMAZING!!
So, now, you sum these 3 situations in only one. Overrated players being sold for 400M, overrated old players being sold for 30M, useless young players being sold per 20M. This is why you have problem in the money balance.
I think this was needed, it won’t have a massive effect on most teams but a few smaller ones might struggle. In real life players get paid £30,000 – 130,000 a week so why not here? If you don’t want to pay for the player then sell him on, happens alot ib football also!
if you are to make this at all fair. you have to balance everyones income resetting every human controlled teams financial situation
because only the rich clubs benefit from anything you impliment
i dont see any possitive financial fixes
you have allowed it to get to this point, this problem has existed since the game started
I’ve just added some clarifications here: http://www.rubysoccer.com/forums/5/topics/330?page=14