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Yes, yes…it’s been a month without communications! I’m a father now, thank you very much. I have no plans to abandon RS…I mean, it looks abandoned now but you know what I mean. I’ve been thinking a lot about it, especially when watching the World Cup.
@BK: I don’t claim to be a master tactician or have a great understanding of which tactics works better against others…what I plan to achieve with a new match engine is a better way to calculate outcomes based on players attributes and positioning. Clearly the “real time” simulation we use is very sloppy and does not provide realistic moments during the match, as can be seen in the replays. I’ll probably re-write it in a way that will not be replayable, at least not with the level of details we currently have.
lol :) it was a deserved motivation….maybe you will get shit done ? . you lot havnt updated shit or done shit in nearly a year and now we are more than a month since any communication.
Just came back to delete a post from Davison, for old time’s sake. Hell, it felt great. :D
same with sunderland. the season is financial plus for the club and positional in regards to board req and i still dont get more to spend the next season ive always had it at lvl 10. always starting at 340m and even when i have extra points to use it should translate into money and doesnt
This has been mentioned before, but it’s broken.
My aim for the season was to stay in the division. I do this easily and turn my budget of 85m into just over 1billion and the investments come at the beginning of the season and my club is now worse than before.
This needs fixing. If a club made 1 billion in real life they wouldn’t go backwards.
(Tottenham in the fast ticker)
k so 10 days later anything been done in them days ?
im just bringing some comedy into the discussion ya fook.
:)
Davison you are of legal age to buy your own milk, stop talking about titties. You should see some professional help about that though.
/BK
AND THERE MUST BE BIG OL TITAYS ON PAGE 4 FFS
THIS IS A GOOD TALK SO FAR :)
Why do you guys keep talking about match engine this and match engine that?
Are you developers? Have you written one? I say yes on both questions when it’s about me.
I wrote a document back in 2002 about how to do a match motor thinking, it’s in Swedish (unfortunately) but translation software is better these days.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bajtc82uzqee73b/MatchMotor.doc
How the results are simulated is important but really not THAT important as long as players (read users) know how to win a game, ie what is required to win against an opponent (stronger or weaker – does not matter). You could simply setup a table where a formation beats another and a third beating the second and so on. Not that important. In a while people will learn about it and start implementing it in their strategy. Or some people won’t care. I have been trying to figure out how RS works but given up, because it’s too much randomness. You have to start treating your users as they know football (specially those who really do know football).
To really create an epic game – sure – there has to be a great engine behind it BUT to get to first stage, maybe a simpler solution would do better things for you at this stage. First goal has to be to go mainstream, and attract as big audience as possible.
You have to really put elements in the game where you measure the knowledge of the manager in order to reward/penalize them with:
- better scores / worse scores
- better players / worse players
- better economy / worse economy
Sniff wrote something that is VERY important to give the users a great feedback of the game and that is to read user action and react upon that.
That is what I have been preaching since day one. A smart game engine (not the match engine) should read HOW user plays every time they log in and measure actions – then reward / penalize.
That is to read the fine print if you will.
Example:
- If Manager A check’s Manager B’s team 10 times and changes their tactics before a game then they are not sure how to setup their strategy = penalize.
- if a player is scouted and looked at by managers more than others, then that player is more important/valuable – add something to that player.
Measure who did setup the first team with less clicks – give some sort of bonus, maybe an extra chance of scoring.
/BK
Personally I think the match engine is the most important part of the game that needs to be worked on, so that some actual real world tactics or similar can be used and tactics maybe able to overcome a stronger team.
I also think that allowing larger squads with morale being introduced would be good. Maybe with the idea that certain players if they become unhappy could cause unrest within larger squads.
I also believe that currently it is too hard to please the board. A few seasons ago I managed to avoid relegation from the Premiership in the last day of the season, however the board still hated me and at the end of the season they were 1% happy with me. The next season I almost made the Champions League and they were still less than 25% happy with me. Once you get into the low figures, unless you are a miracle worker it seems very hard to please the board. Therefore reading the ideas of manager contracts would be an absolute disaster in my mind. Especially if you took on a more challenging role as manager, there would almost be no hope of survival.
I could suggest ideas all day long, but without a better fully working match engine (I do appreciate your work) I’m not sure they are worth it. I’m not sure if anyone remembers but there was a football management game called Player Manager by Dino Dini with the top down Kick Off view on the Amiga (yes I know I am old). That had a really simple tactics engine, where the field was divided into 12 squares and you could place your players via drag and drop to anywhere on the field dependent upon whether you or the opposition had the ball. You could see the 12 squares for possession and without the ball. You then clicked square 1 – 12 and could place your men for when the ball was in that square with and without the ball. You could also turn on lines to see where they had run from. This was really simple, but ultra effective in my mind. (http://www.mobygames.com/game/atari-st/player-manager/screenshots/gameShotId,113568/ – sorry no videos I can find) Maybe something like this could be added for more depth when overhauling the match engine section.
sure, also some players interviews where players talk about their fear to be abducted by aliens..
We could call page 4 “Davison Section”.
/BK
yes and can we have some tits on page 4 of the rubysoccer newspaper ffs come on
Yeah, sometimes re-doing is a better option.
Real life results db would remove all unnecessary discussions of unrealistic results. Requires some work though. These days data is cheap, for a monthly fee of 9 dollars you get all the major games results (all the past seasons as well). Just saying.
The risk of doing calculations based on players and strategies is basically saying you are the expert and know how a strategy beats another strategy.
Which can be tricky. Unless you really do have that knowledge. If you do you should try managing a real team, I’ve been there and done that, very fun.
You really say you want to do NEW things but quickly fall back to the conservative ways of thinking. If you really want to be successful with the “new” game then you have to target something else than you did until now.
Look for some of the “Casual Connect” videos on YouTube, they have lots of talks about gamification, monetization and so on. If you want to reach the mainstream, you need to target daily users, not just do a niche game few people want.
/BK
I agree that match replay is not that important and we could generate the results based on other factors without having to simulate the whole thing as we do now. Even though it would mean a complete re-engineering of the engine I’m inclined to do that rather than adjust the current one. If that means more realistic results and statistics I’m all for it.
I’m not too sure about your real life DB of results suggestion, BK. I’d rather do calculations based on the players and strategies during the match and come up with a reasonable score and statistics based solely on that. I could even use real friendlies from FT and MT to test a new engine once it’s done…hmmm.
I don’t think either do :/
There is however a few other names you might recognise.
Hi
My names Rob Green I used to play SoccerSim with Graham Andre and Pete Waddell.
Just found this site…anyone know if they still use this game?
Cheers
yep u are right
Richard Platt is a Young player ….
31 players and 5 youth in this team:P
4) Match engine
Can be fixed very easily, all you need is real life data of say 10 seasons (per country).
Then you sort it, from best win to highest defeat (per week game) and let a team “win” the result.
The team’s chances depend on team strength, manager ability and a few hidden things.
So the results are in the DB already.
So for each turn, you sort the teams according to the criteria above (squad, manager, team) and they get the result best matching their place in the table with the results. So managers have to compete on DAILY basis to get the best “points”/day. Not logging in on a day(match day) will rank them lower in the sorted table (which can still be enough to win a game).
If you are talking about match replay, who cares about such stuff?
Seeing a result is enough for most people. Maybe who assisted, who scored, yellow, red cards, injuries, man of match simply as a text would be enough for most needs.
If you do not want to use real data (or have the data of 10 seasons of real life football) then you could randomize the results.
/BK
lol se eu disse que o teu gr era mau é que era mesmo… o caso dos gr ser muitas vezes homem do jogo é um facto se o teu nunca o era era porque era mesmo péssimo…
Aqui é o simples facto desse gr mediano ter sido 3 vezes o homem do jogo contra mim… eu chamo a isso azar e um defeito do sistema ainda se fosse um gr melhor era naquela… no entanto nao digo que o contrario nao tenha acontecido que deveria ter perdido uns jogos e acabei por empatar ou ganhar… mas ha é verdade isso é no medium e ja nao estas la…
Some comments for you 4 questions, BK:
1) It’s more lack of motivation than lack of time at the moment…that should change in a month or so. I’m speaking for myself on this one, Danilo still has the lack of time issue.
2) A reset would be nice but I’d rather do it with less countries (to have more managers on the same leagues) and with some new feature. New countries would be re-introduced slowly.
3) I am, hopefully that won’t change
4) Still not sure about that…I kinda like it but I want to fix other things first (such as the match engine)
Cheers
Pode retornar sim, mas deve esperar no mínimo uma época. Se não me engano também é preciso treinar duas equipas diferentes antes de voltar ao Sporting, mas posso estar enganado nisso.
Ya, quando fui eu a queixar-me do mesmo, era o meu keeper que era mau…agora aguenta-te à bomboca e não chora!
Quando o sporting ja nao tiver treinador penso que nao havera problema em regressares la
Gabriel e Lince,
Obrigado pelas explicações, fazem sentido.
Da minha parte vou continuar, fui para a América do Sul tentar começar do nada… também dá pica.
É possível mais tarde voltar à antiga equipa? Aí é que podiam alterar, Sporting é o meu amor :)
There are several questions need to be answered before going forward I think:
1) If it’s about (lack of ) time, then it’s more about planning (badly) really. We all have job, family and so on. That is not an excuse but motivation.
2) Reset will add very little, the game is same, it will give us 10-20 interesting seasons then it’s all over again. I say add MORALE AND RESET!
Is the MORALE working?
3) Are you really willing to commit to maybe what’s the last effort to do this right?
4) Card thing: you have to see this beyond your own needs.
What is the best manager sim out there, are you competing against it?
I YES, then you should ignore the card thing.
If NO, then you should try to get other audience than the normal hardcore FM fanboys.
You need to find other ways to introduce new players to the game. Login through facebook, facebook game, apps. A 5 year old kid should be able to play it. The game is HARD to get for mainstream players, and the card thing would make it easier for people who haven’t played manager games for the past 20 years, to try and maybe like it. Yes, it adds a whole new level of excitement, the end of the season would be BEST thing in a game, what kind of cards you would earn, and so on. You either understand how BIG this is or you don’t.
Davison, you could still have an interesting career to earn your way to your favorite club to manage.
The card thing really offers on the surface real fun way to play the game, get rid of cheaters, or make it really hard. On deeper level it’s really about strategy and “playing your cards” well to achieve your goals. Maybe even have a mission based thing, like:
1) Achieve this and that in 5 seasons to unlock this and that
2) Beat a rival club 3 times in a row to unlock this and that.
3) Cards can be “invested” to unlock/achieve things in training/competition/end of season.
Anyway, a change is always a good thing no matter what you change.
/BK
Removing real life club names, giving managers contracts and all the other superficial changes are all well and good but it wont change the fundermental problem that everyone seems to complain about and thats the match engine. Removing club names wud make the game less attractive as i really couldnt see me getting excited about managing a team called Joe Bloggs United or The Manchester Raiders for example!
As for contracts i cud quite easily see managers getting sacked right left and center like international managers currently do. The board was 100% happy with me, i played and lost the next match and i was sacked. Hardly realistic and sadly i havent bothered with international management since.
Better youth academy is a good idea and cud be done similar to the current training ground were u use points to improve it with a bigger pool of youth players too.
Training is one thing the game is missing though as managers have no input into this which is odd given its a fundermental part of being a football manager. Being able to control training and perhaps focus on training specific attributes would be good.
reset it now, add some attribute boosting for a couple seasons while you work on it. im sure you can beta it before implementation ( the plans that is)
we could all use a moral boost people leaving and the game not being populated as it should be it has been frustrating. i think i can speak for everyone when i say that we dont expect everything all in one shot ( hey that would be fucking awesome) but do what you can…. all we want to see is progress at what ever level you can manage…( you having a kid right?)
i disagree witih card thing, but i think board bonuses like " we at the board think you are doing an amazing job… we would like to extend YOUR contract."
managers should be on a contract. as much as i Love being Sunderlands manager i think i should earn it…. surely not the only Sunderland fan :)
then have season expectations…. then at the near end of your contract you can recieve club offers from other clubs and decide where to go… the more prestige the more bonus to things of your deciding. this is just my own idea…