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Now, Fabio’s comments.
5 points reduction: I completely understand the reason why you and other managers got upset. It was a tough call about something I was thinking about doing for a while and the new player evolution model was the final trigger point that made me decide to do it. Player evolution was mostly predictable and didn’t require manager intervention the new system is here to break this paradigm and reducing the points will make it relevant sooner rather than later.
Coach reports: I think it will take some time for people to get used to the coach reports results, especially because they are useless for all previously fully developed players (except in order to reveal star bonus). I plan to change scouting in the future to be more Football Manager – like, where you assign a country or competition to be scouted and then receive player recommendations back.
Coaching role: you have a good point there. I’ll think about a way to have the coaching or maybe real training have a stronger influence on the player development.
Strategy loss: another good point. We need to rethink the investment areas so they are all similarly relevant to make the decision to invest in one of them instead of another to be a real trade-off.
Just as I wrote this I’ve added some new related improvement tasks to our list. Thanks again for your feedback, Fabio!
That’s great feedback Fabio! I’ll write 2 posts, this one answering your questions and another one to address some of your comments. Here we go.
“Are player still evolving the same way (i.e. playing matches or having 100% stamina)?”
Yes they are, but we have two main differences now. Players will not fully develop by just training anymore, training will only take them, on average, to little less than half their development path. The other difference is that there will be more specific requirements as players get closer to their final evolution steps, such as playing for a first division team, playing for a team that is not from his home country, playing international cup matches, playing top tier (CL and Libertadores) international cup matches, playing for the national squad, getting a man of the match award. Not all players will get all this different requirements and on time we can adjust the odds of each one appearing.
“Skills have gone down 5 pts. How does that affect existing players potential? If a player had the potential for Tackling 94, and was 92, it became an 87. Now will the player (most likely) improve another 2 points (becoming 89) or will he eventually reach the 94?”
Potential went down with skills, so in your example the answer is 89.
“Will new players have the potential past players had (i.e. quite a few reaching 94+) or has that changed?”
Not all of them, but some will still have the same potential as past players. We’ve made this variable as now we have players that can reach their full potential at different ages. Some won’t have all potential available until 30 and they can continue improving even past 30 if they haven’t improve all they could yet. They still start losing skills from 31 so you could have a player improving and losing skills at the same time!
“It was mentioned that secondary countries will not have as many good players. What does that mean exactly? How are secondary countries defined, by Country ranking?”
We have a main number used to generate players skills, let’s call it seed. This seed is higher for the top 2 countries in the ranking and then decreases as the country’s position gets worse. At some point in the past we decided that lower ranked countries should be able to occasionally generate good players, meaning they could sometimes use that the seed to generate players could randomly be higher than the country’s position. This led to awesome players in all countries, because the ones the used the lower seeds were naturally discarded by the teams. The last change is that this seed is now per skill, so lower ranked countries can still get higher seeds, but it is unlikely they will get higher seeds for all skills. Not sure if my explanation was too confusing, I hope you get the idea.
“Can a player’s ability to handle pressure ever change? Only for better, or for the worse as well?”
Not yet, my plan is to include this with the introduction of actual Training where the managers can have some input on how to train their players.
Yes I can, thanks.
Last post was with questions, this is with my personal comments
I did not like the 5 pts decrease in skills because it is too unpredictable, and a bit unfair: I spent a lot of time developing some players that, so far, remain being top quality in the game. The problem will be in 3-5 seasons, when they will be just good players, but not world class as they were. I do not mind that happening with players I bought cheaply after there were abundant world-class players all around (last 3-4 seasons) but it does hurt with players that I bought/developed since they were 17 (especially on Medium…) and are still young (mid-20s)
Regarding the new coaching system, I believe having an exact number there, like scouts show (even though they are inaccurate…), is much more informative than what current coaches are showing me. Their assessment is too generic. It feels like I can better assess other team’s players than my own, which is unrealistic.
Moreover, now the player develops solely based on his innate skills. That is not 100% realistic. Club infrastructure and correct coaching should definitely play a role. That is why we had the Coaching investment. This is completely gone now, so we are only dependent on the luck of getting (or buying) good youths.
Last, some strategy is lost on the changes – one could decide to invest on youths or to buy aging but already developed players. Now that you can have 40 players on squad and do not need to invest points in coaching, everyone should simply do both! Fill your squad with youths and let luck play its part, while spending your points in Transfer Budget (stadium is also no longer that useful, no more home advantage from what I understood…which is also unrealistic) and buying developed players
Just so I comment on all the changes, I loved the new stats, and like the idea of closing down some countries to concentrate humans
All in all, I did not like the changes. They were made with the best intentions in mind but I’m afraid the effects are negative. The silver lining is that I do not know what to expect for upcoming seasons so this makes the game more challenging
On a side note, I still think the main reason we had too many great players was the change in the way players improve (simply by having stamina 100) which allowed for CPU teams to develop their players much more easily (before, they relied on a few friendlies mostly). if that was not realistic, current system isn’t as well. Please check Spanish League Top Goalscorer on Medium. This guy came from nowhere, did not play matches, and suddenly, in his late 20s, in 2 seasons became a huge star (so much so he has an avg goals > 1 in his career). In the past we had to play a youth for 3-4 seasons (usually on loan) so that he would develop. Plus, there was the opportunity to scout a mid-aged player (23-26 yo) that had not been fully developed (see Tom Advocaat, Miguel Martins on Medium, which I developed when they were int heir mid 20s).
A few questions:
- Are player still evolving the same way (i.e. playing matches or having 100% stamina)?
- Skills have gone down 5 pts. How does that affect existing players potential? If a player had the potential for Tackling 94, and was 92, it became an 87. Now will the player (most likely) improve another 2 points (becoming 89) or will he eventually reach the 94?
- Will new players have the potential past players had (i.e. quite a few reaching 94+) or has that changed?
- It was mentioned that secondary countries will not have as many good players. What does that mean exactly? How are secondary countries defined, by Country ranking?
- Can a player’s ability to handle pressure ever change? Only for better, or for the worse as well?
All good now, I’ve removed the asterisk (*) for renewed contracts and added up the remaining contract time with the new contract time to get the total turns left instead. You should now be able to sort by that column.
We have just introduced the concept of inactive countries. Such countries function as normal except that you cannot manage a club in them, you can only manage their national squad. The goal with this is to group managers together in the same countries to increase the level of interaction between them.
As more managers join active countries we have some logic in place to activate additional countries. Similarly, if a country becomes empty and the other non-empty countries don’t have enough managers then the empty country will become inactive. We can always consider manually activating countries if people have a good reason to ask for it, otherwise we’ll stick to this new model.
Cheers
New managers that join RubySoccer from now on will be able to get up to three formation suggestions to help them in learning the game basics. Figuring out that real life formations may not work so well in RubySoccer can be tough on newbies so this feature aims to make the transition easier. Of course they will still have to figure out tactics, strategies and how to best use their players, all the system will do is suggest the positioning of players in the field without actually assigning players to the positions.
Additional player statistics added: fouls, successful passes (%), shots on target (%), goals scored (or conceded) on free kicks, penalty kicks and headers. Statistics screens are likely to change to better accomodate all this extra information. All these new stats will have 0 values for now and will start to be populated as matches happen.
Other minor enhancements:
- new youth players were getting skills improvement straight away, that will now stop
- coach reports results have been improved to be more useful for the Next Steps and Full Potential reports, later on I’ll update existing reports to reflect that
- when players go out of critical morale their morale is not “reset” anymore, they just go back to neutral and don’t lose the recent match participation history
You may have noticed that RubySoccer has been inaccessible during some periods in the last few days. That’s due to an incident with out host that is still being resolved. The situation seems to have improved but they haven’t confirmed the issue is fully addressed just yet, all we can do is wait at this point and hope they do it as soon as possible.
When things like this happen you can always use our Facebook page to look for updates, report problems or simply post your questions and comments.
I believe the issue is that column is being sorted as text instead of number. For example you see 104, 17, 248 instead of 17, 104, 248. Maybe the asterisk (*) that indicates a new contract has been signed is the culprit. I’ll create a bug in our list to fix this.
Thanks Dimitri
A player screen shows
Player Info – Player Stats – Player History – Coach Report
Click on Coach Report, etc.
How do I request a coaching report?
Sorting players on contract turns left is not possible (anymore). It is supposed to be possible, isn’t it?
Really liked the new Assist statistics. A former reserve turned out to be by far the one with more assists. Obviously, he secured his place on the 1st team…Nice info to have!
I understand your point Danilo, thanks for answering.
I trust you guys, I hope you are right.
It’s not a negative reaction, but a understandable one. I point the impression of the image that you receive when the game is constantly changing in sensitive places as interface first, economy, scout reports and skills now, as the more important. I’m still trying to understand the variable MORALE to manage it without affect the rest of my players. My list of players seems a Christmas tree (it must be because these days!). Then now I have to manage players that play half time and get Critical in a blink. It’s a hard job for the managers. I’ll have to pay more attention of how the new changes affect the skills increasement and the morale evolution.
Happy new year for everyone and best regards.
V.V.
I’m also baffled by people’s negative comments, the game has needed a drop in skills for a long time. Before this happened buying a 90+ shooting striker was easy as there where 80+ you could buy. Think about it and compare it to real life, how many strikers can you think of should have 90+ shooting? Sergio Aguero, Suarez, Messi, Ronaldo… Not many more.
I think people are panicking because of change, after a month or so this will be normal and you will get used to it.
We wanted a more manager active game, we are starting to get it!
Hi Vogul,
While your points are mathematically correct, they bear no significance in the match simulation or in any other aspect of the game that matters much.
To be honest we are a bit baffled by some of the reactions we have seen around this. We know the mechanics of the game inside out, and honestly can’t understand what’s the big deal. Whoever put in a lot of effort to build a nicer team around one or more specific aspects will still have the same advantages that were in there before this change – in relation to all other teams in the game, of course (which is what matters). The only thing that will impact everyone is: your current situation won’t last as long as it would, because new players will come in and be competitive sooner than they would have been otherwise. But not that sooner! You will still heap the rewards for your effort in building a better team for a while before that happens.
To conclude, we always thought that game improvements beat all other priorities. Specially because Rubysoccer had been stale for a little while. We don’t want to wait for a season to end before introducing new functionalities we think are nice, at least not if that is not absolutely a must (technically speaking). If RubySoccer was paid, had ads or whatever – therefore giving us some sort of income – we could look into options that would allow us to do this part differently. But we are where we are.
Hopefully you guys will rethink your positions in relation to this, and agree with us that RubySoccer needs to evolve as quickly as it can. Rest assured we will never introduce features that wouldn’t impact our players as evenly as possible.
This is what I think: If you reduce a player skill from 95 to 90 the player loses a 5.27% of that skill but if you reduce from 90 to 85 the rate is 5.56%, while you are going down in the state of the skill, the dimmed percentage is higher, and some trainers take these numbers very seriously. Now my team is a mess. The problem is the reference that the users had when they made their formations, psycologically is not the same to trust in a player having 92 than having 87, so the impact in the state of mind and dedication that users had put in the past to build their teams is very high.
I have spoken with a couple of them and the sensation is the same than the one I feel. I dont understand why is so necessary touching the game all the time. When we are used to an economy or an interface or some kind of skills… Then PLOF! Somebody gets a bit bored and changes everything. Regards.
Para além disso, como já referi defendo que este tipo de as alterações devem ser sempre realizadas no início das épocas para que todos os jogadores possam pensar nos seus objectivos e decidir o plantel que vão formar.
Boas,
Em primeiro lugar quero dizer que vim aqui apenas expor a minha posição pois não considero que o tenham feito da maneira mais correta.
Passo a explicar o que me parece ter sido o problema de desenvolvimento dos jogadores. Exemplo: Um jogador que tivesse nos últimos 2 anos de desenvolvimento com 90 por exemplo poderia ser um jogador bom com 95/96 e agora passa a ser um jogador de 90/91….
Para além de jogadores de “2 linha” que habitualmente todos temos nos planteis que eram jogadores médios 90´s agora passaram a ser jogadores banais….
Quando falo em justiça, é porque quem tenha sido apanhado a fazer uma equipa toda de novo é bastante mais prejudicado do que quem tenha uma equipa com jogadores todos com mais de 30 anos……….
No Davison, you did not get it right. Read everything again.
so let me get this right i spend time and effort in finally making a club with solid top attributes …and you reduce my clubs skills ?
fuck me
Ninguém teve o trabalho destruído, o decréscimo foi igualitário. Ou seja, todos os jogadores perderam pontos igualmente. Por exemplo: se dois jogadores tinham chute 95 e 90 e aí foram para, respectivamente, 90 e 85, o que era melhor continua sendo melhor – e pela mesma diferença de pontos.
A única coisa que vai acontecer é que o sistema novo vai começar a fazer diferença mais cedo do que faria, caso o decrescimo não tivesse acontecido. Achamos que isso seria muito mais interessante do que a alternativa.
Para além disso destroem o trabalho de quem anda várias épocas a fazer crescer jogadores.
Pois mas não faz sentido nenhum fazer alterações a meio das épocas…..e a justificação também não faz sentido…….. se a ideia é haver melhores jogadores porque piorar os existentes?
@Dcaniva: o motivo de diminuir as skills dos jogadores é para acelerar o impacto das mudanças recentes que ocorreram na geração de jogadores de forma que em algumas temporadas os jovens gerados no novo sistema já se tornarão melhores do que os jogadores mais experientes atuais. A mudança não deveria prejudicar ninguém ou ao menos ter um impacto mínimo, já que todos foram afetados igualmente.
English version
The question was about reducing player skills in the middle of the season. I explained the reason behind the reduction is to bring forward the impact of recent changes in the player generation logic so that in a few seasons the younger players generated after the changes have a chance of surpassing the exisiting experienced players. The change should not negatively affect anyone as everyone was equally impacted.
Boas,
Qual é a lógica de mudar os Skills dos jogadores a meio de um Campeonato?
I have just reduced player skills as previously announced. Scout reports for those players were also updated to reflect their new current skills.
Cheers
This result can mean one of two things:
1) The coach failed to do a proper evaluation of the player
2) The player has already reached his full potential
It is important to notice that existing players reached their full potential too early when compared to the new model, so these reports may indeed be useless for such players. As younger players start replacing existing ones they will make more sense and will also give you an idea of the diversity we now have in terms of player evolution. I understand these changes may take time to have a real impact on the gameplay, but I’m sure you’ll appreciate the improvement once they do.
For now I’d say it’s best to focus the reports on younger players. For older ones (and by older I mean even 25 year old players sometimes) you may get results such as your for most reports and a result of “This player is close or has reached his full potential” to the Evolution Stage report, meaning the player has truly reached his full potential, most likely even before the new model was put in place.
Hope this helps!