Recent Posts by Berhan K
340 posts(s) found
no no, you’ll see me every day, you’ll see the suggested things working (on a game) later on, work has begun… ;)
Anyway, I think it’s very nice not having to worry about transfers for a while.
Rui, cool then.
I am guessing RS won’t make the changes suggested, I will do them on my game and we can talk again in 6 months.
Actually it is your own perspective (and few others), you want the old ways back (the chaos) so you can manage your own economy. Management game is not ONLY about the economy and transfers, it’s the whole picture. People complained about not being able to buy/sell stars, I presented a solution. If someone does it or not, not really my decision, but to claim the old ways were better is just insane. It was cheater’s paradise. Be honest, it was bad. Maybe you have played all management games like that. Buy low, sell hight, like farmville only football players.. Come on, do you want to see another game like that? I want to see a game that is better than the rest.
Anyway, we’ll talk in the subject in 6 months again.
/BK
I don’t know how you think the game should be like?!
I try to give ideas and suggestions that would make the game a better product/service, more realistic and more than just a market management game. And depending on your personality you can play “many games” within this game, that is my goal, NOT to make it how I would like to play it. Don’t we want bigger audience for the game? Don’t we want to get rid of the cheaters? How do you do it? Not by the way it’s been – for sure.
Taking in new things into your consciousness hurts, I know, but try to see things from other perspective than just your own.
BK
Filipe and Dimitri, read my post fully again.
You will still deal with players, I am talking about the real big transfers. Before this big economy changes you could see a lot of 150M+ deals for good but not so great players.
Is that the kind of deals you are talking about?
I am talking about addressing the issue with people hanging on to the best players because they are not getting paid the money they think players are worth.
My suggestion will unlock buying such players, so even if the manager doesn’t want to sell the player because others can not offer say 400m for a super player, the club could still sell the player, OVERRIDING the managers decision, and the reason is manager not reaching the goal set by the board.
The suggestion will also add an other level of management depth to really try to reach the goals or you may lose a player or two, then you have to start re-designing your strategy. A more difficult game, but a lot more fun.
You will NOW be able to do the BIG deals, but THOSE will take time to put in reality, thus making it not too interesting for the cheaters to get involved in, as it would take time to make those happen.
So this suggestion solves the issue with not being able to buy the players you want and can afford.
Realistic ? Quite so, as those deals will cost a lot of money and in reality the club will sell any player the club feels the offer is too good to refuse, even if the manager opposes to such a deal, right?
BK
Also, another investment entity could be born with that idea, media reach out mechanisms, that would aid you to get the masses behind such a move.
Some players would never want to play for club X, because of the club or because of the manager, the media investment entity would work to increase your moves of the players.
And looking at the current situation with the transfer mechanisms, I think this could be a good solution, because you can always get young/ok players from the transfer marked, but to get the experienced and great players you would have to work a bit harder than just showing some money..
/BK
What are you talking about, you can sell/buy players, maybe not the ones you want for the money you have/can offer but that has been the reality of all games of this type. How do you address the issue with offering x amount for a player, manager refuses, then he leaves, along comes a new manager and sells the player for half the money you offered and it’s deal done…Maybe cheating, maybe not..
So again Rui, do you want a realistic game or a fantasy game?
I am not saying that you shouldn’t be able to buy/sell, but saying that I wouldn’t care less if I couldn’t get a player form the transfer market, I’d manage anyway.
Now this made me thing about something else.
How about the buying selling is NOT handled by the manager but by the club agents/lawyers/whoever.
What you could have is (at start of season, when choosing investments):
- a list of great players (listed by pos, skill and team)
- check box with “Season top scorer”
- check box with “Season top defender/mid/goalie/striker” which is the highest average rating for those players.
and simply give the club mission to get that player. That is a game/deal between the clubs.
And if any of your players fall into that category, the club can tell you, that you have until the end of season to GET to pos X, if not, we have to sell this player. Perhaps your top player. Why?
Because the club economists think it’s better to cash in your 100 skilled shooter than letting you finish 8th-12th for 10 season and then he becomes too old to be sold.
SO you have a meta game about keeping your players, if you want to keep your best player, then you have to fulfill your season goal.
We do have goals for seasons but if we do not reach them – NOTHING happens!!
Why not? The management (club) should say, sorry but we simply have to sell, player X, to keep the economy floating.
That can be really fun thing really, to really get the player you want even if the manager would refuse to sell the player to you, then clubs could still make the move possible based on how you both manage with your duties.
/BK
why make the injuries last longer?
Why not make the “match fitness” lower, that is simply another variable trained by playing matches often and letting physios fix players after that, perhaps match readiness (physical shape) is better. The better the player is at this, the less the injury risk. People not paying attention to that area will not be able to play the players that very often. Also being good at that area will get players fitness quicker up to 100% stamina/fitness.
/BK
haha, how will you trade them? The game mechanics do not allow swapping players.
This one ought to be interesting to watch.
/BK
Rui, no it is not as simple as you say “economy is what we managers make it to be”, it is a well known fact in these types of games that the economy is ALWAYS a big issue, no matter what the game/genre is.
Having a balanced well working economy in a multi-player environment is ALWAYS a big issue that needs to be addressed or the game will have issues keeping it’s players.
Do we want a realistic game or we want a fantasy game, I think the question goes towards that kind of reasoning.
If I can not buy one more player ever again in this game, I would still enjoy the game. And you can buy players, maybe not the top players at the moment but you can still do good deals. And right, what good is the money if you can not buy the players you want?
That issue can be solved not by rolling back to previous state but building more mechanisms that will force managers to really invest in a core first team, and not keep an army of superstars in the squad. If you don’t want to sell your players ust because you want 400M and people can offer only 40M, then the player will go on free transfer and the wages of 400k/week will be tried, but then if you have the budget for it, you can sign them.
Now, if the game had mechanisms that would trigger other players to demand as big wages as the guy signed from the free transfer, then you would have to think twice if you want to offer 400k/week for a great player and thus risking unsettling the first team. Then again if you didn’t have that kind of check, the wage of 400k won’t do anything else but costing the money, then you are not putting a whole solution, only half a solution.
We really need to see what’s coming an that is the insanely big wages offered on free players as no one will be able to pay several hundreds of millions that managers will ask for those.
BK
Gabriel, the economy changes are great, with adjusted player development you can take the game to the next level.
For the player development, make sure you have a solid model, so we do not end up with superstars roaming around.
Take under consideration the “star” element ManagerSim had, it was a nice feature.
Really think about the players as real people, do they like their state at the moment?
When not played for several games (if player thinks they deserve a regular team place), the morale could go down a lot and when reached a “break point” the player can stop developing, but perhaps perform great. Most people would stop analyzing here, I think you need to analyze further and see how does the manager handle this performance.
If the player is still ignored and not given what he thinks he deserves then, he should really be unhappy and so on.
If you manage to do this right, guys – it could really be awesome game.
I also have some other suggestions about the talent pool in any given game world. I think that should be directly related to the number of real managers playing the game. Keeping it closed like that you will assure the hardware value of the game world not being devalued by having too many of the same players/entity.
How does that work?
New star player will appear when an old star is gone from the system (taking his place).
Who should get this player then (initially, later on anyone with the right money will be able to buy of course)?
I think there needs to be internal lists of rankings for managers that are not visible on the page but read by the game engine to analyze who the best youth-developing manager is.
There could be points unlocked for doing different “mission”.
For example some managers will develop a lot of own players and then keep them the whole career in the club, that can be awarded.
Others will develop youths, then sell them for the economy alone, that could also be awarded but by different measures and rewards.
Some will bring back the player they sold (youth from own club) and let them finish their career in the mother club, that could be rewarded.
And so on. Many rewards unlocked when you do different things, all measurable.
Other things:
- when managers look at a player profile, the more managers look at the player , it should be measured, it could mean a a player is popular, then the player would more likely “grow” star status.
Things like measuring, what a manager does when he logs into the game first, last before logging out, most often, least often, then measure everything to find out what manager focuses on – this really should be kept secret and never told managers that is active though, or it will spoil the fun.
Augmented reality/geolocation aspect, we all are placed in different places around the world. It would be really cool if say you were watching a real life game, in say Barcelona. Then the game could (not too often though) give you perhaps an e-mail from the scout pointing to the possible star player in Barcelona team, that is “mysteriously” put on sale.
I know this is a “multi-player” game but I think it would benefit from considering it as a MMOG really, where you develop your skill-set by playing the way you play, game measuring your actions and triggering rewards after a set scenario is played and objective fulfilled, WITHOUT calling it mission and so on, all done in the background that is.
/BK
Charles, maybe but I am sure people would want to try to spy/scout on players, it would generate money..
/BK
Well, I think I mentioned this to the developers or the forums, I am not really sure, but here it goes.
The game would benefit from having paid service options (perhaps through an app), letting you scout a player and see what the maximum potential is.
Another “premium package” would allow you to chose what areas (on youths) to concentrate developing, so they develop the skills that is important for them.
I had a whole bunch of those suggestions, but if you haven’t seen those then those were private mails with the developers for a possible co-operation deal.
Well, a thing to consider anyway.
/BK
I doubt that money saved will be turned into points.
Next season, you’ll have whatever you have and according to the level you have either increase or decrease. I like this solution VERY MUCH.
Now trading is not necessary, and you still can do transfers and make money.
I made a mistake and thought that people will sell a player or two, got my budget to 300M+, the mission this season was to employ/buy, while next season I will try to get maximum back from transfers (100%) and have a lower transfer amount.
This adds strategy into economics (almost turn based, where one turn is 1 season). Se next season is sell only season…
I think this will work for many people..
/BK
Charles, are you assuming that every player will think they are a star player and will want either to get a regular team spot or be transferred?
Adding morale could do:
- if player is unhappy he will play better if he gets a chance in the first team (random perhaps), or not
Adding influence could do:
- if influential player is brought, everyone plays X% better for x amount of weeks / a possible youth with star-to-be-chance being generated
- if influential player leaves, one or two of the players that were in player’s shadow can get an extra boost or sudden revival of career.
I think one should really think of terms as unlocking effects when input of some kind is induced on the box called the game. Some effects will be negative, while others will be positive.
I am sure many people mentioned the transfer-windows so I can not take credit but I think it would be a good idea.
amacb, it’s really a choice whether cheaters are allowed to play the game they play or not. I would actually agree with you 100% IF this step was taken to prevent cheaters only. That would have been REALLY bad, but this is a better solution for the game economy mechanism I believe, because now transfers is an option and not a necessity in order to survive (economically). Words well said nonetheless. We all play the game for different reasons and have different goals.
I still think there is too much money in the game, compared to reality.
/BK
I can understand some of the criticism made about the players and performance, as I mentioned earlier failing to understand how a computer managed player is the top scorer, while there are at least 20 better strikers than him, while playing in a mid-table team.
Nowadays everyone has at least 1 95+ striker, so someone has to score goals of course. Tactics is a bit too random in my opinion but maybe I am not paying enough attention to HOME GAME advantages. Maybe I should play with different team/tactics depending on the opposition instead of having one setup for all.
I don’t know, but understand the frustration. We all have been there.
/BK
You guys need to get laid (and I do not mean with each other but it’s really up to you). :)
No matter how you feel about the things being the way they are, it is what it is, you have to deal with it!
Good/Bad labels can be very biased depending on your own view on things, but more important is to think in terms of “Right” and “Wrong” in order to create a better game.
Davison, if you have a suggestion to a better youth system, put it in the suggestions, and see how many will like it, if majority of players do, developers may do it. Or not. That is the reality, no need to get upset with things not working as imagined (by you).
If you do absolutely want that things will work as YOU suggest and only like that, start making an own game, make the best manager game, and I will try and pay for it if I like it. I am sure others will too.
Sly, I am not sure how much insight of the game you have, and I mean on the bellow-the-hood stuff, like player entities, formulas, calculations, how stuff really work, but if you do know that, perhaps tat information should be educated to all somehow, maybe we need a wiki page about it? You sound like the right guy to author such a page if you’d like to do it of course.
Having said all that, I agree to some of the criticism because it’s based on not knowing how the game really works. An other way of looking at this is: “Do I really want to know how many xp points every turn gives and so on?” Is this a management game or an adventure game? I am sure some people would like to count how many xp points they got on each player and turn, some have their own excel-sheets to calculate stuff, and that is really cool.
I think also the question that bugs me is: can I play the game optimally without having to do all that xp calculations on excel and so on.
THIS is really interesting to me, because, aligning to one of my suggestions previously, my answer would be NO, you can not get the optimal results (in this case) for your youths, without doing that EXTRA research. So people doing that are perhaps being rewarded for their extra work already.
By giving equally to all, are we saying that all people should get the best results for just logging into the game?
I still think there should be different kinds of rewards depending on HOW you play the game.
Sorry, too much, I guess this should go into suggestions section, but I am sure no one reads this long texts, and now I have worked my keyboard for a day. :)
/BK
Davison, it has the same meaning for all managers though, no?
We should learn from this, that’s the whole idea.
Sly, I am not missing that point, and you are wrong, cheating will always be going on, you have just not seen it.
Read before you post, I am supporting the change, I too think this is good, and in fact if no one would not be able to transfer any player for say 10 seasons I wouldn’t be the one to cry about it. As long as you can make money on transfers, you can cheat. People cheat because they think it’s not a big deal, just a silly game, no one is selling me this and that, I have no chance playing the fair way etc..
The excuses are countless. What needs to be done is steps towards minimizing the needs to cheat.
If you had very clear “cause and effect” on everything in the game, then people would know how to play the game to reach the success they are searching.
For example, I can not figure out why a striker in Premier league is a top striker while his attributes are OK, but compared to many other strikes worse?! Shooting 84, speed 83, dribble, control, and header are above 90, but that still is interesting, as this is not the best striker (on paper) in the league.
Is there something one is missing?
Is it just random?
The random factor should be there I guess, but should it be that decisive?
I think the next step should be introducing “player morale”, that dictates the players behavior, influence on team, performance of self and team, and so on, and that might somehow slow down the player trading behavior of many managers.
It’s simply is unreal to trade 10 players each season, specially if we are talking top class players.
All changes are good, at least for learning.
/BK
Amac, I think this update is very good, now managers have to manage what they got.
One of the weakest links in the game has been the economy, I think this is major step in the right direction, please try to see it form the perspective of what it means for the game.
It’s still early to see the full result of what this means but surely it has made harder to play in certain (unrealistic) ways.
We are all here for beta-testing and fine-tuning the mechanisms of the game, right?
/BK
crazy guy.. :)
/BK
I’ll pay 121M ;)
/BK
Will, that would add more confusion to things.
A uniform reward system is the best way to have a general rewarding system, without doing too much tailor-made solutions that would look awkward.
How do you reward EXTRA effort, I think this is what you are getting at, and that is interesting.
I AGREE that it should be awarded, and there I have several types of reward suggestions:
- People that stay online (taking care of team) should get some kind of rewards, and by that I mean a CERTAIN type of rewards, say an super talented youth.
- People who spend much time in the transfer market, should get something like extra funds on transfer market.
- people who spend much time on playing with tactics, could get advantage on something.
- stadium gives you advantage on opponent skills, maybe even increasing club popularity, income from matches, etc..
NOW, the key here is to MEASURE, HOW the managers play the game, then SETUP profiles which you can award.
If your profile suggest you are a manager taking care of business only (ie trade players) and do not care about competition that much, then you could achieve success on certain areas in the game.
I don’t know, that is how I’d do it. That way you get best of experiences for every manager.
Just my 2 cents.
/BK
well, obviously there is still too much money around, just take a look at the transfer lists…. :)
/BK
Sly, I too have suggested the player value being removed, better to have a transfer price tag instead, something like, on the player screen:
Transferred from TeamX for XXM.
Then when doing the investments round (turns 1-12), stating to board: “we need to raise X number of millions to get a player at position X” and the board (agents) would try to work out deals for you. That would be other staffs job, and in fact it could be another entity in the investments screen.
Say if you had staff department, no only for coaching but even for scouts (not number of searches) but the level of involvement scouts do.
With lower levels you could just list players among “known” players in your area. The higher the number of scouting department the bigger the perks, such as you give them targets and they do the scouting, delivering best possible suggestions. Some levels would even allow you to scout on team and on individual player.
Say level 1-5 scouting is only for number of searches you can do (or search every X turns)
6: ability to scout team (option on team level saying scout this team)
7: ability to scout individual player (on player screen)
8: ability to scout youths (on team list)
9: ability to scout league (on league table)
10: ability to scout continent (the map??)
and by ability I do not mean that you could click only on “scout xxxx” but even give more specific details on the higher levels.
BK
Gabriel, the youth value being high for potentially great players was there earlier as well.
I just got one such player before the changes were made, moved to first team with value of 12M, now after the changes, most of my other youths are around 10-12M as well. I am thinking that the value calculation is the cause, and not the potential, as they used to be 4-6M valued before the changes. It’s going to be interesting if we can see youth team players with value of 50M+ out there.
/BK
good stuff guys, got answers..
/BK
I welcome any new changes, good or bad, just want to give feedback on my thoughts of the new changes.
- the investment screen is a step in the right direction, well done
- player wages went up a bit and that is good, I just wonder what happened to those players at 150-200k a week?
- the overall feeling of the economy seems very fair and realistic, I hope the developers/people will cope with all the complains that may follow this.
- transfer budget looks hard to understand, on the investments screen says 270M and on the club info 101M, and while bidding on player 80M or something like that, what’s going on? a feature or a bug?
just a thought:
- aren’t the youth players a bit over-priced?
/BK
so who would spend 45% of the entire funds on a 34 year old player??
these questions wouldn’t exists if we had a realistic economy model, it really is killing the game, but who cares..
/BK
interesting experiment, we’ll see what board will do with such players…
/BK
you sexist pig! :D
What are the chances manager joining and turn 102 and selling a star player at turn 107, someone who would go for 2-300M going for around 130M?
I am not sour for missing to buy the player nor for the player going for a wage of 150k/week.
That’s kind of thing that bothers me, someone joining and selling one of the best players for 1/3rd of the market value. I know because I sold such a player for 300M.
SO the question is; will the new functionality allow managers to join to clubs and sell the best players just like that?
No offense to the managers involved, I am not saying they cheated but it certainly doesn’t look good.
/BK