Improvements Discussion

Subscribe to Improvements Discussion 692 post(s), 78 voice(s)

 

December 31, 2015 14:17

58 posts(s)

 

Para além disso destroem o trabalho de quem anda várias épocas a fazer crescer jogadores.

 

December 31, 2015 14:46

1,001 posts(s)

Administator

 

Ninguém teve o trabalho destruído, o decréscimo foi igualitário. Ou seja, todos os jogadores perderam pontos igualmente. Por exemplo: se dois jogadores tinham chute 95 e 90 e aí foram para, respectivamente, 90 e 85, o que era melhor continua sendo melhor – e pela mesma diferença de pontos.

A única coisa que vai acontecer é que o sistema novo vai começar a fazer diferença mais cedo do que faria, caso o decrescimo não tivesse acontecido. Achamos que isso seria muito mais interessante do que a alternativa.

 

December 31, 2015 21:54

828 posts(s)

 

so let me get this right i spend time and effort in finally making a club with solid top attributes …and you reduce my clubs skills ?

fuck me

 

December 31, 2015 23:25

1,001 posts(s)

Administator

 

No Davison, you did not get it right. Read everything again.

 

January 01, 2016 12:56

58 posts(s)

 

Boas,
Em primeiro lugar quero dizer que vim aqui apenas expor a minha posição pois não considero que o tenham feito da maneira mais correta.
Passo a explicar o que me parece ter sido o problema de desenvolvimento dos jogadores. Exemplo: Um jogador que tivesse nos últimos 2 anos de desenvolvimento com 90 por exemplo poderia ser um jogador bom com 95/96 e agora passa a ser um jogador de 90/91….
Para além de jogadores de “2 linha” que habitualmente todos temos nos planteis que eram jogadores médios 90´s agora passaram a ser jogadores banais….
Quando falo em justiça, é porque quem tenha sido apanhado a fazer uma equipa toda de novo é bastante mais prejudicado do que quem tenha uma equipa com jogadores todos com mais de 30 anos……….

 

January 01, 2016 12:59

58 posts(s)

 

Para além disso, como já referi defendo que este tipo de as alterações devem ser sempre realizadas no início das épocas para que todos os jogadores possam pensar nos seus objectivos e decidir o plantel que vão formar.

 

January 02, 2016 06:42

4 posts(s)

 

This is what I think: If you reduce a player skill from 95 to 90 the player loses a 5.27% of that skill but if you reduce from 90 to 85 the rate is 5.56%, while you are going down in the state of the skill, the dimmed percentage is higher, and some trainers take these numbers very seriously. Now my team is a mess. The problem is the reference that the users had when they made their formations, psycologically is not the same to trust in a player having 92 than having 87, so the impact in the state of mind and dedication that users had put in the past to build their teams is very high.
I have spoken with a couple of them and the sensation is the same than the one I feel. I dont understand why is so necessary touching the game all the time. When we are used to an economy or an interface or some kind of skills… Then PLOF! Somebody gets a bit bored and changes everything. Regards.

 

January 02, 2016 08:14

1,001 posts(s)

Administator

 

Hi Vogul,

While your points are mathematically correct, they bear no significance in the match simulation or in any other aspect of the game that matters much.

To be honest we are a bit baffled by some of the reactions we have seen around this. We know the mechanics of the game inside out, and honestly can’t understand what’s the big deal. Whoever put in a lot of effort to build a nicer team around one or more specific aspects will still have the same advantages that were in there before this change – in relation to all other teams in the game, of course (which is what matters). The only thing that will impact everyone is: your current situation won’t last as long as it would, because new players will come in and be competitive sooner than they would have been otherwise. But not that sooner! You will still heap the rewards for your effort in building a better team for a while before that happens.

To conclude, we always thought that game improvements beat all other priorities. Specially because Rubysoccer had been stale for a little while. We don’t want to wait for a season to end before introducing new functionalities we think are nice, at least not if that is not absolutely a must (technically speaking). If RubySoccer was paid, had ads or whatever – therefore giving us some sort of income – we could look into options that would allow us to do this part differently. But we are where we are.

Hopefully you guys will rethink your positions in relation to this, and agree with us that RubySoccer needs to evolve as quickly as it can. Rest assured we will never introduce features that wouldn’t impact our players as evenly as possible.

 

January 02, 2016 09:36

266 posts(s)

 

I’m also baffled by people’s negative comments, the game has needed a drop in skills for a long time. Before this happened buying a 90+ shooting striker was easy as there where 80+ you could buy. Think about it and compare it to real life, how many strikers can you think of should have 90+ shooting? Sergio Aguero, Suarez, Messi, Ronaldo… Not many more.

I think people are panicking because of change, after a month or so this will be normal and you will get used to it.

We wanted a more manager active game, we are starting to get it!

 

January 03, 2016 14:34

4 posts(s)

 

I understand your point Danilo, thanks for answering.
I trust you guys, I hope you are right.
It’s not a negative reaction, but a understandable one. I point the impression of the image that you receive when the game is constantly changing in sensitive places as interface first, economy, scout reports and skills now, as the more important. I’m still trying to understand the variable MORALE to manage it without affect the rest of my players. My list of players seems a Christmas tree (it must be because these days!). Then now I have to manage players that play half time and get Critical in a blink. It’s a hard job for the managers. I’ll have to pay more attention of how the new changes affect the skills increasement and the morale evolution.
Happy new year for everyone and best regards.
V.V.

 

January 03, 2016 17:34

148 posts(s)

 

Really liked the new Assist statistics. A former reserve turned out to be by far the one with more assists. Obviously, he secured his place on the 1st team…Nice info to have!

 

January 03, 2016 19:50

148 posts(s)

 

How do I request a coaching report?

 

January 03, 2016 20:55

583 posts(s)

Donator

 

A player screen shows
Player Info – Player Stats – Player History – Coach Report

Click on Coach Report, etc.

 

January 08, 2016 13:31

148 posts(s)

 

A few questions:

- Are player still evolving the same way (i.e. playing matches or having 100% stamina)?
- Skills have gone down 5 pts. How does that affect existing players potential? If a player had the potential for Tackling 94, and was 92, it became an 87. Now will the player (most likely) improve another 2 points (becoming 89) or will he eventually reach the 94?
- Will new players have the potential past players had (i.e. quite a few reaching 94+) or has that changed?
- It was mentioned that secondary countries will not have as many good players. What does that mean exactly? How are secondary countries defined, by Country ranking?
- Can a player’s ability to handle pressure ever change? Only for better, or for the worse as well?

 

January 08, 2016 13:50

148 posts(s)

 

Last post was with questions, this is with my personal comments

I did not like the 5 pts decrease in skills because it is too unpredictable, and a bit unfair: I spent a lot of time developing some players that, so far, remain being top quality in the game. The problem will be in 3-5 seasons, when they will be just good players, but not world class as they were. I do not mind that happening with players I bought cheaply after there were abundant world-class players all around (last 3-4 seasons) but it does hurt with players that I bought/developed since they were 17 (especially on Medium…) and are still young (mid-20s)

Regarding the new coaching system, I believe having an exact number there, like scouts show (even though they are inaccurate…), is much more informative than what current coaches are showing me. Their assessment is too generic. It feels like I can better assess other team’s players than my own, which is unrealistic.

Moreover, now the player develops solely based on his innate skills. That is not 100% realistic. Club infrastructure and correct coaching should definitely play a role. That is why we had the Coaching investment. This is completely gone now, so we are only dependent on the luck of getting (or buying) good youths.

Last, some strategy is lost on the changes – one could decide to invest on youths or to buy aging but already developed players. Now that you can have 40 players on squad and do not need to invest points in coaching, everyone should simply do both! Fill your squad with youths and let luck play its part, while spending your points in Transfer Budget (stadium is also no longer that useful, no more home advantage from what I understood…which is also unrealistic) and buying developed players

Just so I comment on all the changes, I loved the new stats, and like the idea of closing down some countries to concentrate humans

All in all, I did not like the changes. They were made with the best intentions in mind but I’m afraid the effects are negative. The silver lining is that I do not know what to expect for upcoming seasons so this makes the game more challenging

On a side note, I still think the main reason we had too many great players was the change in the way players improve (simply by having stamina 100) which allowed for CPU teams to develop their players much more easily (before, they relied on a few friendlies mostly). if that was not realistic, current system isn’t as well. Please check Spanish League Top Goalscorer on Medium. This guy came from nowhere, did not play matches, and suddenly, in his late 20s, in 2 seasons became a huge star (so much so he has an avg goals > 1 in his career). In the past we had to play a youth for 3-4 seasons (usually on loan) so that he would develop. Plus, there was the opportunity to scout a mid-aged player (23-26 yo) that had not been fully developed (see Tom Advocaat, Miguel Martins on Medium, which I developed when they were int heir mid 20s).

 

January 09, 2016 07:58

4,032 posts(s)

Administator

 

That’s great feedback Fabio! I’ll write 2 posts, this one answering your questions and another one to address some of your comments. Here we go.

“Are player still evolving the same way (i.e. playing matches or having 100% stamina)?”
Yes they are, but we have two main differences now. Players will not fully develop by just training anymore, training will only take them, on average, to little less than half their development path. The other difference is that there will be more specific requirements as players get closer to their final evolution steps, such as playing for a first division team, playing for a team that is not from his home country, playing international cup matches, playing top tier (CL and Libertadores) international cup matches, playing for the national squad, getting a man of the match award. Not all players will get all this different requirements and on time we can adjust the odds of each one appearing.

“Skills have gone down 5 pts. How does that affect existing players potential? If a player had the potential for Tackling 94, and was 92, it became an 87. Now will the player (most likely) improve another 2 points (becoming 89) or will he eventually reach the 94?”
Potential went down with skills, so in your example the answer is 89.

“Will new players have the potential past players had (i.e. quite a few reaching 94+) or has that changed?”
Not all of them, but some will still have the same potential as past players. We’ve made this variable as now we have players that can reach their full potential at different ages. Some won’t have all potential available until 30 and they can continue improving even past 30 if they haven’t improve all they could yet. They still start losing skills from 31 so you could have a player improving and losing skills at the same time!

“It was mentioned that secondary countries will not have as many good players. What does that mean exactly? How are secondary countries defined, by Country ranking?”
We have a main number used to generate players skills, let’s call it seed. This seed is higher for the top 2 countries in the ranking and then decreases as the country’s position gets worse. At some point in the past we decided that lower ranked countries should be able to occasionally generate good players, meaning they could sometimes use that the seed to generate players could randomly be higher than the country’s position. This led to awesome players in all countries, because the ones the used the lower seeds were naturally discarded by the teams. The last change is that this seed is now per skill, so lower ranked countries can still get higher seeds, but it is unlikely they will get higher seeds for all skills. Not sure if my explanation was too confusing, I hope you get the idea.

“Can a player’s ability to handle pressure ever change? Only for better, or for the worse as well?”
Not yet, my plan is to include this with the introduction of actual Training where the managers can have some input on how to train their players.

 

January 09, 2016 08:15

4,032 posts(s)

Administator

 

Now, Fabio’s comments.

5 points reduction: I completely understand the reason why you and other managers got upset. It was a tough call about something I was thinking about doing for a while and the new player evolution model was the final trigger point that made me decide to do it. Player evolution was mostly predictable and didn’t require manager intervention the new system is here to break this paradigm and reducing the points will make it relevant sooner rather than later.

Coach reports: I think it will take some time for people to get used to the coach reports results, especially because they are useless for all previously fully developed players (except in order to reveal star bonus). I plan to change scouting in the future to be more Football Manager – like, where you assign a country or competition to be scouted and then receive player recommendations back.

Coaching role: you have a good point there. I’ll think about a way to have the coaching or maybe real training have a stronger influence on the player development.

Strategy loss: another good point. We need to rethink the investment areas so they are all similarly relevant to make the decision to invest in one of them instead of another to be a real trade-off.

Just as I wrote this I’ve added some new related improvement tasks to our list. Thanks again for your feedback, Fabio!

 

January 12, 2016 12:40

148 posts(s)

 

Thanks for the detailed reply Gabriel!

I like that players can still evolve ’till their 30s and what it takes for them to evolve (e.g. playing intl matches). Perhaps if the coaches were more specific on the next steps?

In my view a coach 10 should be able to give a very specific next steps, like player should evolve until he is 25-26 yo, or needs to play on XYZ leagues or in CL/Libertadores…

 

January 13, 2016 02:07

4,032 posts(s)

Administator

 

I think you’ll see that, in time, the full potential report will be easy to interpret the way it is, in other words, you’ll be able to guess an age from what it says. Regarding next steps, the current report is specific enough to say “play in another country” or “play international matches”, maybe you just haven’t seen one of those yet. The only caveat to that is that it will show the “easiest” next step available, which doesn’t necessarily mean the player wouldn’t evolve by doing something else. For example, your next step report may say “The player will still benefit from training”, but it doesn’t tell you whether or not he could already improve by playing official matches. I’ll think about changing that to show multiple types of improvement.

 

January 13, 2016 13:03

148 posts(s)

 

I asked for quite a few reports already (~10) and have coaching 10. All the Next Steps answers varied between “I’m not sure how this player can improve” and “I do not believe this player will improve further this season”. is that because we are near the season end?

 

January 14, 2016 01:42

4,032 posts(s)

Administator

 

For a Next Step report, the answer “I’m not sure how this player can improve” means that the report failed OR the player has nothing else to improve. The combination of results from other reports will tell will which one…or you can just try requesting the Next Step report again if you prefer.

The answer of “I do not believe this player will improve further this season” means that the player will still improve in the future, but he’s reached the maximum he could for his age. Each evolution step is tied to an age and the player can only complete a step once he reaches the minimum age for it. The number of steps that become available for the player each year depend on the player’s evolution profile (which is outlined by the result of the Evolution Profile and Full Potential reports). Remember that, for older players that reached their maximum before the changes, the Evolution Profile report will always result in a “I’m not sure” type of answer.

 

January 14, 2016 13:07

148 posts(s)

 

Got it! So considering what you said about steps for improvement per age, let me know if my understanding is right then:

Before: Player had a pre-programmed full potential. To unlock this potential you had to obtain certain # of points. Friendlies were worth less points than UCL, for example, and teams with higher Coaching required less points for the player to improve. Thus, managers could not affect full potential, but could impact how fast the player got there

Now: Player had a pre-programmed full potential and speed of improvement. Full potential is not based on points because infinite friendlies are not worth as much as 1 UCL match (they are simply different). If a player is suppose to improve 6 skill points in a particular season, once he reached that, there is nothing else the manager can do to speed up the process. Assuming I am doing at least the bare minimum (lets say it is playing the guy for 12 league matches), it doesn’t matter if the player plays all my 38-42 league games, the effect will be the same.

If my understanding is correct, then I would suggest adding back something that enables a manager to influence how fast a player improves. We now have no impact on full potential (it is harder to unlock it though, which was a great and very realistic change!) and on how fast it takes for the player to get there. The points system (with the boost of the Coaching investment) enabled more managerial influence than what we currently have

 

January 14, 2016 22:48

4,032 posts(s)

Administator

 

You’ve got it almost right. The pre-programmed full potential only existed in the first version of RubySoccer, we then moved away to making available a percentage of the average potential every season, which was the model we used before the last changes. Now the player has a pre-programmed number of times he will improve (which I’ve been calling steps), and each step has an age and type associated to it. More differences below.

Before: coaching level determined the number of points for each player improvement, you obtained points by “training” or by playing matches. The more important the match competition more points you got. Players stopped improving in a season when all skill points made available where obtained and stopped improving at all when the full potential was made available and skill points obtained. This used to happen between 23 and 25 years old for players in a team with good coaching.

Now: player has a pre-programmed number steps that will become available each season based on his evolution profile. In order to improve the player need to fulfill the step requirements, i.e. train for a number of turns or play a number of official matches, etc. Friendlies play no role in player improvement anymore. Once all steps up to the player current age are completed, the player stops improving for the current season. Once the player reaches the maximum age for his profile all steps will become available and he stops improving once all are completed (even if he is past 30 years old now).

To be changed: coaching has no influence on how fast a player complete the steps, but that will change soon (I’m already working on it). Once I’m done I’ll associate a coach level to each step; if the team’s coach level is less than the step coach level it will take longer for the player to complete the step and improve (more matches, more training, etc). If the coach level is equal or above the coach level for the step there will be no penalties. I’m planning to add a coach level recommendation in the Next Step report.

 

January 15, 2016 13:06

148 posts(s)

 

Awesome! Thanks for the detailed explanation!

New season now on medium, hopefully the coaches will give me plenty of next steps suggestions to work on

 

January 15, 2016 21:52

828 posts(s)

 

the downgrade cost me a championship

players that were once dominating games now are shit

 

March 06, 2016 16:40

7 posts(s)

 

There’s a bug with new bidding on not transfer listed players. I made a bid on a computer’s player, but it’s not available to see it at negotiations screen. Anyway, it’s counting for player’s room in my team but I can not cancel bid. Please take a look. Thanks all!

 

March 06, 2016 21:15

4,032 posts(s)

Administator

 

Aha, I think I know what the issue is, I will fix it later today. For now I think you will be able to see and cancel your bid if you have anorher type of transfer going on (regular transfer, loan, etc). Thanks for reporting!

 

March 07, 2016 03:34

148 posts(s)

 

If I do not accept a bid for one of my players I just do not TL the player?

How does the other manager knows the bid was not accepted?

 

March 07, 2016 04:24

4,032 posts(s)

Administator

 

For now it’s just that, you ignore the bid or message the other manager, it doesn’t affect your player or the other manager’s players in any way. I’m also not keen to allow managers to just drop bids as that could lead to some managers potentially dropping bids just to let a specific manager bid alone…we’d need some measures to prevent or inhibit that. When the feature is fully implemented your player may tell you he wants to leave (depending on how compelled he is to move to the bidder(s)‘s team(s)) and while it’s still up to you to decide whether to transfer list him he’ll not want to renew contract and may negatively impact the other players if you don’t accept his request.

 

April 14, 2016 13:26

148 posts(s)

 

Just wanted to comment that so far the new status and transfer system are going great!