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Now, My suggestion:
Every Brazilian near to 30 years remember the old economic situation in our country (80’s and 90’s).
The player potential value, the transfer market and the managers money are really inflated.
The income/outcome since I’m playing never changed, and in this way I believe that is not perfect, but is quite fair. If you manage your balance you wont be rich but you can play without any problem and enjoy the game.
The first step I believe that need to remove an 0 from player value and from the bank account from everyone. In this way, we go back near to the reality with the best player in the game for max. 200M.
This first step can be improved after more seasons in order do define the maximum value that one player can be transferred (dont know.. 50M, 100M?? will be defined by GM seting the maximum potential value that one player can reach).
“Ah, but the game will keep unbalanced and I want to balance the money in the entire game”
The second step is define the minimum and maximum value that one manager can have inside his bank account in this moment and set these values in the entire game. e.×. 10M and 50M
“Damn, but I worked so hard to make this money and now I will lose everything. It’s not fair”
The third step is create one option to not make this decision unfair. you can create 2 options to balance this. for those that received money you can create the bank loan payment and for those that you took the money, the bank investment receipt.
How to clear this value and create the possibility to the manager choose what do? define the minimum and maximum number of season to pay and receive this money. e.×.: min 10 seasons, max 50 seasons.
Also, set the maximum value that will pay/receive per week. e.x: 200K per week.
To make it more interesting, you can set many options for this. ex. less time to pay the bank loan, less interest you need to pay. more time you pay, more interest you pay. The same situation from bank investment.
This way, will balance the game, create another option for fun and wont harm or benefit any manager. Not perfect, maybe not the best, but one way.
Gabriel, thanks for your feedback! However, you can see Welington’s good example with the numbers that this will create a big distortion in the game. To illustrate that, now I’m trying to buy a 20 year old player, who has 79 shooting skill and is asking for 16K wage. Since I don’t know whether he is going to be a good player, I will not buy him from the small team (he is too expensive for his age and skill and I’m not sure if he is going to give me any return). This is what gonna happen: the small team will not get the sales money and will not improve squad or stadium, I will not renew my squad, I will not pay 400M in a good player, my players will get old, my country has 2 managers and hardly increase its position on the countries ranking, my youths probably will never reach the top skills, I will have to sell all the players that ask me for an unreal wage, I will stop making money, my squad will suck, my chances of wining will decrease and I will know that there’s not much I can do about it and then I leave. I really like Ruby, but I think Welington is right about the player prices and the way CPU takes decisions on buying players. I made a lot of money out of the dumb CPU decisions. Its easy money and the good players’ prices are unbelievable (because of this inflation). If we want to simulate real life, OK, players make a 130K/week, but clubs that pay this make 600M/year. You can google it. I hope this doesn’t create a distortion and discourage people to play the game. Best, Bernardo
Continuing.
I sincerely believe that my team will be one of those that will take some benefit in this decision to make the players “smarters” and ask very high values to renew.
I can give many examples from other online games that took this decision I had no way back. Even real economic situation examples can be given.
Anyway, this is my opinion. The true is if you want to be one of the top in the game with top players in the market for 500M, you really need to have at least 1 billion to be competitive. Nowadays, 100M is the same to have 10M in the past. you can buy only one player above the average and will be without money.
sincerely and sorry for my words, but I’m used to play online games for at least 15 years (yes, I’m old) and this decision to make the game more expensive is the most stupid decision that can be taken.
in this way, in 5 to 10 seasons, the richest will dominate the game and the “regular teams” will deal with a poor players to avoid the bankruptcy or will do some crazy acts and will destroy many teams for many and many seasons.
Nowadays, the merchandise and sponsors are ridiculous and impossible to balance the income/outcome. you can only be healthy selling players or having a big stadium with a good performance in the season and it’s not common to have an 100k stadium.
Now, putting aside the player market, and considering one team earning around 400k income (that is the standard for average teams) and 50k stadium that I believe it’s much higher than the average in fastticker.
If you have 10 coaches and 3 physios and spending around 60K to stadium maintenance, you will spend 380K. So, if you consider crowded stadium every game you have 500K.
So, considering the whole season playing around 23 games at home:
(400K x 144)/3 = +19.2M
(380K x 144)/3 = -18.2M
500K x 23 = +11.5M
Total Income/Outcome WITHOUT player’s wage → +12.5M
So, to finish the season at $0 balance you need to pay for your players the total of (12.5M*3)/144 = -260.42K per week
My squad with 27 players, 25 from youth, cost me 344.185K every week, that is 16,5M per season and I believe that I have a CHEAP squad. If I double this, I will pay 33M per season that means -20,5M per season. Now, imagine this for “regular teams” with not so much money?? The conclusion is: The rich teams will DOMINATE the game!!
Now, I will open here my bank account and explain how I did this after 46 SEASONS.
Money: $1,361,448,811
I got this team with a bunch of old players, very high outcome, 8 coaches, 36K stadium and around 15M in my account.
after 3 seasons spending the money to get promoted I succeed, but was the worst thing that I did and in the next season I had been relegated with a bunch of old players and almost $0.
I suffered a lot to renew my squad with youth players and I sold many of them very cheap to have some money.. I fought a lot to earn 30M to 50M for amazing players. At this moment, one player with a 100M value could be considered as a top player, and I believe that is really fair for an top player (that is the main reason that I refuse at most to enter in this current overrated market).
After a lot of seasons selling player to have a good money to improve the team, I reached around 80M and started to hire coaches and improve my stadium. Doing this and selling some of my top players to keep an good balance and keep improving my stadium I reached around 200M and I tought that was amazing to keep improving the stadium and keep an competitive squad.
Then started the overrated player values and I started to sell every (sorry for the word) piece of shit for 40M to 100M. And I started to make easy money.
After, we received the bonus to have dumb CPU decisions to buy players near to retirement for, 10M to 20M. So, more free money.
Finishing, you have CPU “investment in the future” and you sell 67~71 average and useless youth players for 10M to 20M. AMAZING!!
So, now, you sum these 3 situations in only one. Overrated players being sold for 400M, overrated old players being sold for 30M, useless young players being sold per 20M. This is why you have problem in the money balance.
I think this was needed, it won’t have a massive effect on most teams but a few smaller ones might struggle. In real life players get paid £30,000 – 130,000 a week so why not here? If you don’t want to pay for the player then sell him on, happens alot ib football also!
if you are to make this at all fair. you have to balance everyones income resetting every human controlled teams financial situation
because only the rich clubs benefit from anything you impliment
i dont see any possitive financial fixes
you have allowed it to get to this point, this problem has existed since the game started
I’ve just added some clarifications here: http://www.rubysoccer.com/forums/5/topics/330?page=14
I’ve just added some clarifications here: http://www.rubysoccer.com/forums/5/topics/330?page=14
It’s good to see a lot of discussion around the new change, I already expected that :-)
I don’t want to explain too much but the way I’ve tried to do it shouldn’t make it harder for small teams to hire their youths, but it could make it harder to compete when hiring players. The players will not always try to double their salaries…they should be smarter now, ask for money when they “think” they can. If in the future we introduce other expenses for example they be should smart enough to not ask that much money because now the team may not be able to match it.
Hope this clarifies things a little bit…if in the end we see it’s not a good change we can always go back ;-)
Cheers
I agree with Gustavo about this double wages thing… this will unable smaller teams to hire good players, because usually they have smaller stadiums and they make less money with sponsors as well… it takes a great amount of time and money to improve stadiums and start making more money (I had to spend a lot of money myself to increase Univ Chile’s Stadium)… the point is that doubling wages might create a huge gap between the teams that make a lot of money and the ones that are trying to improve…. Besides worrying about improving stadiums and paying an unreal amount of money on average players, now they have to handle wages that can reach 10%-20% of their total income in a Turn. It will be really hard for a smaller team to reach a high performance, without good players and having to pay a lot of money for their promoted youths… we will see a lot of bankruptcies and managers fired for weak performance, with limited possibilities of putting together a nice team… if the money needs to circulate from teams with a lot of money (that have worked hard to reach this point), maybe a debate would bring up some nice ideas… Cheers!
Ok Dimitri! Thanks!
Not a bug, but a feature. See the announcements.
Admins,
I don’t know whether this is a bug or not, but some players are asking much more than the double of their current wage to renew contract.
Example – A stirker with regular skills (shooting 90) who has a wage of 15K wants 35K to renew it! I’ve never seen that…
Can u please check it out and tell me if something unusual is going on with the game?
Thanks in advance,
Bernardo
I think it’s a good change. Now you have to actually care about wages. Who cared about wages before the change?
“what about teams that are in lower divisions and a player is asking 100k as a wage but the board will only allow 60k then that team will loose that player, not all the teams are billionaires, "
is a good argument for the change, actually.
I personally do not think doubling wages is the way to fix this, there could be other ways, (better coaching structures, stadium upgrades, travel charge for away games, etc) but not player wages, what about teams that are in lower divisions and a player is asking 100k as a wage but the board will only allow 60k then that team will loose that player, not all the teams are billionaires, (my account, Money: $1,901,075,455 (excellent)). I have raised lots of money by selling players, I have given up results and focused on developing young players and selling at decent prices. I just think that wages are getting crazy now and if thins continues then no team will be able to make any money when they sell a player because by the time someone sells a well developed 25 yo, the investment in wage for that player would be too much a player makes 70k for 3 seasons (= 10M in 3 seasons) next renewal comes and the player asks for 140k for the next 3 seasons (= 20M for the next 3 seasons) you just invested 30 million in developing that player, and then guess what, you sell that player and you have less profit that what you think. Now just imagine if a team has 11 players that he has developed (or purchased ) that team will have to gather 300 Million in 6 seasons just for player wages. Do the math, it does not make sense to me.
I agree with Dirk
My goalkeeper asks a wage of 107k. His previous wage was 62k. I agree something had to be done to balance the economy but to almost double wages is the right solution? At the moment it looks like it but in the future?
We will only loose cash in the coming seasons. I’m hardly break even after a home and away match now. After 2-3 seasons most teams would have to sell players to avoid bankruptcy. Charles, selling players for 2-3-4 Million doesn’t make a difference if you have to pay 60M and more for a good player.
I think that this increase of salary is too important. One player ask me a 50% increase, he is 31 and already has a very good salary (70k…). I think that in few years some huge players will ask so big salary that nobody will affort it. In any case not the team from small country without good young players to sell.
Are the wages really doubled or is it more something like +20k or +30k per wage ?
If the wages are doubled, I’m afraid having currently players with 50k as wage, will they ask for 100k next time ?
Is this rule applied for all managers or only managers with too much cash ? :)
I haven’t checked, but it means you’re prices are too high. I sell players to CPU for 4-5-6mil, sometimes around 10-12 mil. Those are fringe players that i sell for that much. The top players are the ones that really bring in big wads of cash, but nonetheless, selling those lower average players for 2-3-4 mil really does bring up the piggy bank. I had over 750mil at some point with alavez simply by keeping a couple of roster spots open and promoting all my youths and selling them right after their promotion.
havnt had the comp buy anything from me this season
I agree with dimitri.
the only real way of making money in Ruby is by selling players. Now that the CPU actually buys players from us, it really is the best option.
I understand the economy of the game is flawed, but we’re way too deep into it now where a 1 time solution will fix every problem…
Buy low, sell high. Just like the stock market. You’ll need to learn to sell that 1 guy that everyone wants… or at least that the computer wants.
I’ve bought guys for 10 mil, but after 3-4 seasons, i’ve turned around and sold them for 60mil or more just to make money… heck, i sell players that aren’t fully grown yet just so that human managers don’t buy them. :P The cpu buys now, take advantage of that. it’s your only chance for survival especially now that wages have essentially doubled.
Either cut expenses or make more money selling players, I’d suggest (I use a combination of both).
with a game at home
Income Expenses
Tickets $614,250 Player Wages $437,047
Players Sold $0 Players Bought $0
Contract Break $0 Contract Break $0
Improvements Cancelled $0 Improvements $0
Merchandise $289,920 Ground Maintenance $81,018
Sponsorship $70,535 Staff Departments $481,500
Departments Downgrade $0 Departments Upgrade $0
Total $974,705 Total $999,565
Profit / Loss: $-24,860
Tickets $0 Player Wages $444,047
Players Sold $0 Players Bought $0
Contract Break $0 Contract Break $17,650
Improvements Cancelled $0 Improvements $0
Merchandise $256,143 Ground Maintenance $86,155
Sponsorship $75,315 Staff Departments $481,500
Departments Downgrade $0 Departments Upgrade $0
Total $331,458 Total $1,029,352
Profit / Loss: $-697,894
I suspect the formula is simple btw: if a player would ask for 10k before the change, he asks for 20k now. So in about three seasons time, the money spent on wages will be doubled.
Yes, that was with one home game. Two weeks before that: Tickets $1,297,855 (two home games I guess).
And a ranking graph or something like that would be a nice feature, yes :)
Dimitri, to confirm, this is a “normal” week where you have a home game correct? If you have no home game that week (from div, cup or int game) then your ticket sales would be much lower.
I also wanted to ask the admins: Do you guys have plans to put in a “Season Form” in the Forms tab? This way we can view what our positions were over the course of the entire season.
I know ruby used to have it and i used to love that feature. I used to be able to tell that 2/3s into the season, my team would start sucking LOL
Happened to me to, for example a 33yr old who asks to double his salary.
But I guess it’s a good change, so that we have to be more careful with spending money.
Well the negotiations are extending more than expected… but I only have 80 millions (if I pay 30 for this player my capital will be 50 or less) and he’s asking for almost 45 k per week, even he asked for 46,800 at the beginning… but it’s a hard negotiation. That means around 2,35 millions a year for a 30 y.o. player.
I guess that change should be based in the incomings, stadium size, type of division you are playing and baremos of economy… not based in the amount of cash we have. I’ll refuse that negotiation because my economy will resent the enough to not be available to renew some of the rest of players.
45 k for y.o. player… 34 k for a 26 y.o. player (skills 80+) is crazy.
I really disagree with some points of this disbalanced “greed feature”, cause I don’t manage one of these teams that have “lots of money to spare”.
I guess it’s a good change, but it has to be reviewed to sharp the causes that take the players to ask for a wage improvement.
My humble point of view.