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If you use team player list plus addon in firefox you know when your player is done for the season, no need for excel.
@Charles, isn’t that just bad luck on your side?
one shouldnt have to use a outside program to play this game
these things should be posted to the manager. next to the player or a whole new window tab in team. labeld Exp gain using a bar system which shows it at what % playerx has gained so much this season for example playerx [xxxxxxxxx/ ] +80% gained or even instead of % actually say player x gained “x” amount of points so far.
im not about to jump on excell and spend way to much time on this game. shouldnt have to. managers need more tools and options
I agree filipe, but just to be certain…
in my opinion, before hand, if you had a player with 67AVR starting. This player, would surely become at least 87avr, with a little luck, he will grow more.
Now, i get the feeling that player progression is more random and that a 67avr player won’t necessarily become an 87avr player. Perhaps only an 85 or 86avr player.
Has anyone been tracking this to see if its true?
I have an excel sheet which i essentially use to dump player ratings when they come out of my academy and i’ve noticed a trend more recently where although a player is hammered in friendlies and officials, they don’t necessarily reach their potential. Again, perhaps i haven’t been subbing my players at the 55th minute mark and have been screwing up somewhere…
Again, it just seems to be that before it used to be “67AVR player starting is equal to or better than 87aVr player when fully grown”
I agree with Berhan abou the cheating thing, as long as we have cheaters there will be cheating :D As long as we have people there will be cheaters, so…
About the transfer thing, some changes already planed will probably make the situation a little better. If money from previous season turns into points people will have some more incentive to make some extra. Also by removing or updating the transfer limit price there will be a price you can actually pay for those top players…
Right now it is true, 300M means nothing… That´s something makes me believe there are still cheaters…
Sorry for the double post but Berhan theserves an anwser here:
“I think also the question that bugs me is: can I play the game optimally without having to do all that xp calculations on excel and so on.”
I consider myself to have a nice carear here in RS, I never used those calculations or excel. I also consider myself a good talent finder, the two things I know about this in the game are:
1 – player improvement is incertain
2 – the best a player is when he starts the more hods he becomes great
knowing that you can make some other conclusions, for example:
- If you have 1 nice skilled “starter” you have some probability he becomes great (I have no idea how much that is)
- If you have 30 nice skilled “starters” you have a higher probability one of them becomes great
Hope it was helpful :D
I dont know if this is correct but I’ve been playing with the logic that player ratings are based on the number of attempts and successful tackles, passes, shots, goals, cards, etc… You can find all that information in the table bellow the match report (I pay much more attention to those then the first). The logic can be improved it is certain, but still, with no other personality tipe factor in place you must know all that matters are skills, stamina, tactics and a random factor you cant influence. You take two players with the same skills, in the same position with the same tactics and they will do the same AVERAGE match rating (with average you eliminate the random factor).
About Davison claims, we all know how this goes so there’s no point trying to explain him why he’s wrong, I just hope the Developers have more patience than the most people and make no care of what he says…
Cheers
Charles, are you assuming that every player will think they are a star player and will want either to get a regular team spot or be transferred?
Adding morale could do:
- if player is unhappy he will play better if he gets a chance in the first team (random perhaps), or not
Adding influence could do:
- if influential player is brought, everyone plays X% better for x amount of weeks / a possible youth with star-to-be-chance being generated
- if influential player leaves, one or two of the players that were in player’s shadow can get an extra boost or sudden revival of career.
I think one should really think of terms as unlocking effects when input of some kind is induced on the box called the game. Some effects will be negative, while others will be positive.
I am sure many people mentioned the transfer-windows so I can not take credit but I think it would be a good idea.
amacb, it’s really a choice whether cheaters are allowed to play the game they play or not. I would actually agree with you 100% IF this step was taken to prevent cheaters only. That would have been REALLY bad, but this is a better solution for the game economy mechanism I believe, because now transfers is an option and not a necessity in order to survive (economically). Words well said nonetheless. We all play the game for different reasons and have different goals.
I still think there is too much money in the game, compared to reality.
/BK
Isn’t it abit to fast to draw conclusions already on the new system?
Getting 400m transfer budget is kinda your own fault isn’t it? I guess that’s lvl 10, should have spend points somewhere else if you know the transfer market isn’t good atm. I’ve made the choise to get coaching 10 en low transfer budget and spend all my 50m already. A team that is complete or nearly complete doesn’t need 400m atm, so in my opinion it is just a bad way to spend your points.
Managers just have to realize themselfs that there won’t be any players sold for high prices like before and that most of the managers are still waiting for the end of hte season.
Managers deserve the fruits of their own work. When you start breaking down the distinction between somebody who maximizes their economy and somebody who does not, by saying that playing field to be leveled to accommodate those who do or can not, you decrease the incentive for achievement.
Every healthy economy demands activity.
Better to have a flawed economical model than non-existing non-functional one.
Regarding player game ratings.
I think its normal that players don’t ALWAYS play up to their ratings. IMO its a normal occurrence in ANY sport.
I think the biggest thing is to check player stats on a season to season basis. However, we also have to take into consideration how our tactics are created when it comes time to assessing a players game rating.
I’ll give you my tactics as an example.
Strikers play pretty well in my tactics. But only if they play center. If they play LC or RC, they usually have a lower rating. (less than 6). This is why i put my best striker at center and not on the wing. I know that even if i have my best striker on LC or RC, they might score more goals, but their game rating will still be lower than the center playing striker.
Mids that play ANY center position, usually play between 5 and 6.
Mids that play the wings (L or R only) usually player a bit higher than my center mids.
Defense typically play around 5-6 except for my DC+1 who usually player a bit better than the rest.
I’ve noticed this about the current tactic i’m using.
I also have a 2nd, center-concentrated tactic. With this tactic, the above stats differ.
Strikers usually play center, and usually play around 7.
Mids, all play LC,C or RC, usually play a lot stronger (around 7 or more)
Defense player about the same.
IMO, player ratings DO matter in how well a player plays, but i think tactics really make or break how well a player will play during the course of a season…
Just like in real life, its not just how talented a player is, its also how they are used. this is where tactics come into play. No sense in using a high shooting mid in the defensemid position if his tackle is shite…
I think we’re all in agreement that the changes to the economy were needed. We can also all agree that with a few more tweaks to how players are managed like player morale and such, other variables, will “force” some managers to sell players that aren’t happy and thus would kick start the market once again. Let’s not forget, with player morale introduced, i’m SURE lots of CPU managed teams will also be selling players. If morale is introduced, i’m sure once its implemented, the markets will get flooded with players on the TLs. Not just by human GMs but CPU as well. But the real question is, in the eventuality that the market dies down after that initial flooding, what will keep it from going stale again? Will introducing player morale be enough to keep the market flowing or will it have a 1 time affect and then die down once again? If the latter, what else can we introduce to keep the market going? Other than player morale, is there any other “variable” that can be introduced to the game to allow for the market to continuously evolve and change and be kept active? I think thats what we all want… but let’s all agree that a transfer market can’t ALWAYS be active… Just like in real life, there should be lulls… i think it was either BK or Davison who spoke about transfer windows… perhaps thats another variable that can be introduced… i guess every change will have to be analyzed and see what kind of impact it has. Just like the change that was just made, it became pretty obvious that other tweaks have to be made as the market is dead right now.
Davison needs a game he can win guys, please make a new dimention with only one league and just one team in it…
Davison, are there any good players at all? You seem to thin they’re all garbage. Ever think maybe just yours are “piles of piss” seeing as how you religiously finish midtable or worse?
Davison, do you imply that there aren’t even chances for everyone?
I can understand some of the criticism made about the players and performance, as I mentioned earlier failing to understand how a computer managed player is the top scorer, while there are at least 20 better strikers than him, while playing in a mid-table team.
Nowadays everyone has at least 1 95+ striker, so someone has to score goals of course. Tactics is a bit too random in my opinion but maybe I am not paying enough attention to HOME GAME advantages. Maybe I should play with different team/tactics depending on the opposition instead of having one setup for all.
I don’t know, but understand the frustration. We all have been there.
/BK
I’ll reply in a PM :). Let me finish lunch first :)
im sorry for my rant but its how i feel
thanks can you fix the rest of the game now ? :) im serious
so full of shit its not even funny. well the rules and conditions you speak of dont apply to this team. i had a great team full of 95’s and it ment fuck all finished low. my tactics werent the problem, the players would play well 7-10 then next game play like 5-6 then 7’s ect inconsistant shite. and it didnt even matter who we were playing. beating the eventural league winners every season yet losing to shitty teams with no managers ? whos team was a load of shit ? sly stop defending the game. its fucked. the attributes mean nothing, transfer market is dead, money means nothing now, there literally zero managing done now other than subs, scheduling friendlies, watching youth play every game and not gain shit with 10 coaching, the list is continuous. i appreciate the work that went into this game i really do. however how long does it take to improve this game. i dont see much improvements 2-3 max since when i started is this good enough ? i dont know maybe im expecting too much ? maybe i see the fucking full potential in this game and it pisses me off that things spoken about YEARS AGO still have yet to be fixed, upgraded ect ect ect ect ect
if your going to do something, do right. otherwise dont bother. im a loyal person, i dont like watching shit Die due to inaction or someones disagreement about fairness. i for one couldnt give a fuck about fairness. managers make thier own fairness which the options ive proposed. you either utilize them right or not.
whats not fair is the current pile of shit state this game is in
whats not fait is having 400m in the bank being fked off to oblivion
whats not fair is having 95 attribute team not even getting into champ league or europe.
whats not fair is shit 80 avg teams beating me when thier players are piles of piss
why am i even repeating my self. every fucking year since this shit started. same ol shit
Medium:
Transfer Budget: $435,397,150
Wage Limit: $1,374,934
Current Wage Total: $884,688
Fast:
Transfer Budget: $421,983,749
Wage Limit: $1,721,522
Current Wage Total: $818,096
what to do with that money?
I can not pay the amount that I want the players, and nobody wants to sell superstars.
@BK: My insights in the game are the same as everyone elses. I’ve learned this game by playing and paying attention to what happens. All other know how besides playing and paying attention comes from the forum posts from gabriel about the game and from reading the wiki. Player development can be found here: http://www.rubysoccer.com/mediawiki/index.php/Players_Evolution. I
@Davison:‘your lucky to get your player into the 90’s even if you do that player plays like shit’ ……
Ok, not sure how you come to this conclusion. You know there is no morale. It’s all very basic. They don’t have good day’s or bad day’s. A player won’t just ‘play shit’ because he didn’t get enough sleep. He will always do the same thing. Trust me when I tell you, that if you have a team full of players with 90 stats, you will be able to win the league, the cup and the CL.
All I can say is, pay attention to Manchester United in div1. I’ll show you how ‘easy’ it can be to turn a team around in a short amount of time. Remember, I work with the same economy and the same rules that apply to you. I’ll see you next season in the EPL…..
Don’t overeact :). Fixed a few hours ago.
you are completely missing every point so im done, no use explaining playing 5 matches for 1 attribute is stupid. even more so considering the transfer market is useless.
your lucky to get your player into the 90’s even if you do that player plays like shit. as berhan mentioned in another thread attributes are flawed. why have them if they obviously mean nothing also. dont bother with another retort. you dont have one. the game speaks for itself ZzzzzZZzzzZzzz
You guys need to get laid (and I do not mean with each other but it’s really up to you). :)
No matter how you feel about the things being the way they are, it is what it is, you have to deal with it!
Good/Bad labels can be very biased depending on your own view on things, but more important is to think in terms of “Right” and “Wrong” in order to create a better game.
Davison, if you have a suggestion to a better youth system, put it in the suggestions, and see how many will like it, if majority of players do, developers may do it. Or not. That is the reality, no need to get upset with things not working as imagined (by you).
If you do absolutely want that things will work as YOU suggest and only like that, start making an own game, make the best manager game, and I will try and pay for it if I like it. I am sure others will too.
Sly, I am not sure how much insight of the game you have, and I mean on the bellow-the-hood stuff, like player entities, formulas, calculations, how stuff really work, but if you do know that, perhaps tat information should be educated to all somehow, maybe we need a wiki page about it? You sound like the right guy to author such a page if you’d like to do it of course.
Having said all that, I agree to some of the criticism because it’s based on not knowing how the game really works. An other way of looking at this is: “Do I really want to know how many xp points every turn gives and so on?” Is this a management game or an adventure game? I am sure some people would like to count how many xp points they got on each player and turn, some have their own excel-sheets to calculate stuff, and that is really cool.
I think also the question that bugs me is: can I play the game optimally without having to do all that xp calculations on excel and so on.
THIS is really interesting to me, because, aligning to one of my suggestions previously, my answer would be NO, you can not get the optimal results (in this case) for your youths, without doing that EXTRA research. So people doing that are perhaps being rewarded for their extra work already.
By giving equally to all, are we saying that all people should get the best results for just logging into the game?
I still think there should be different kinds of rewards depending on HOW you play the game.
Sorry, too much, I guess this should go into suggestions section, but I am sure no one reads this long texts, and now I have worked my keyboard for a day. :)
/BK
Let me comment on some things here.
Model is become you reading way to much into it 3+3+3+3= 12 pts for 4 matches and you still havnt even meet the fucking 1 attribute point gained.That’s correct. That is indeed 12 points, I said you needed 15, so you need 5 official matches. Not sure what you want to gain with this statement. According to this logic you could have also said something like 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 = 14 points for 14 friendlies and you still don’t gain 1 attribute. Yes that would have also been true. Like I said it’s 15 points, those are the facts.
esp if player growth completely ends at 25 which in its self is unrealistic.
This is also not true. A player will stop growing when the predetermined amount of stats he was allowed to gain is reached. So, this meens if he hasn’t unlocked all his stats, he will keep on increasing untill 30 years of age. When he hits 31, then yes….. he will not increase anymore, even if he did not unlock all the stats he was allowed to unluck. From personal experience I can say that it’s really not hard to make sure a player has unlocked all his stats at the age of 24.
You keep talking about having a realistic game, but you need to realize it’s pretty darn hard. Also, trying to make it very realistic wouldn’t necessarily improve the gaming experience.
So, to conclude, everyone is allowed to comment on the game, either criticise certain aspects or suggest improvements, that’s all good. I think we all respect your suggestion to the game. Perhaps development indeed could be changed. Personally I wouldn’t mind a player growing faster as well. However I don’t think it’s helping rubysoccer if you simply state things that are not correct. That’s just my opinion….
^ good post spoke my mind there berhan agreee!!!!!!
since when did making a statement on how poor youth development model is become you reading way to much into it 3+3+3+3= 12 pts for 4 matches and you still havnt even meet the fucking 1 attribute point gained.
its shite it has been this way. a youth player should gain experience points every game, as they grow older the frequency should drop. simple yet logic seems lost
and this whole thing about making youth unpredictable fine but a focused training should be up to the manager. as gabriel stated a focus option in training would suffice. Offensive or defensive.
keep attribute area random i dont mind that, the frequency of which they gain them is completely unrealistic. if you focus on offense then some offensive area will improve randomyl as with defense ect
the whole system isnt good enough. esp if player growth completely ends at 25 which in its self is unrealistic.
with that said, look how many people have left this game, and tell me im wrong. this games in decline and i hope that the positive measures are taken to fix it.
my way of helping is applying my solid ideas. its ok to disagree with me but facts dont lie no more excitement in the game
ps when i say right now i mean its been shite for a long time including currently.
hope that helps
“yeh how often the youth develop is really poor right now even”. Dude seriously? Explain the words ‘right now’ for me please since I’m lost. You make it sound there has been some kind of change in youth development?
Now I don’t want to pull rank here, but I have these 2 red words under my name saying ‘Game Master’. TRUST ME when i tell you, that players have increased the same way for the past 50 seasons. NOTHING WAS CHANGED. There is not a mass conspiracy with your team Davison. It’s not like players with you increase less then with other teams. I know it’s hard to believe, I know you pointed out time and time again players don’t increase wityh your team like they do in other teams, but that’s just not true.
Let me explain the system 1 more time. With coaching 10 a player needs 15 xp points to increase. You get 1 for a friendly, 3 for an official, 4 for en EL game and 5 for a CL game. He can increase between 1-6 stats each time he get’s to 15 points.
This is what I pointed out in on other replies of mine to your posts. This is not called random. That’s the only ‘downside’ of ruby. It’s all pretty basic. I know exactly when a player is going to increase and if you have the know how, you could even backtrack how much he has already increased. Thus making youths still very predictable, something Managersim didn’t have at all. The only thing random about it all is, you don’t know which stats would increase and you don’t know how much in total he will increase. So a player could get a nice amount of total stats, but if he increases in the ‘wrong’ primary or secondary stats he might not be as usefull. Thus I said being able to train specific stats would take out the last randomness this game even has.
Davison, it has the same meaning for all managers though, no?
We should learn from this, that’s the whole idea.
Sly, I am not missing that point, and you are wrong, cheating will always be going on, you have just not seen it.
Read before you post, I am supporting the change, I too think this is good, and in fact if no one would not be able to transfer any player for say 10 seasons I wouldn’t be the one to cry about it. As long as you can make money on transfers, you can cheat. People cheat because they think it’s not a big deal, just a silly game, no one is selling me this and that, I have no chance playing the fair way etc..
The excuses are countless. What needs to be done is steps towards minimizing the needs to cheat.
If you had very clear “cause and effect” on everything in the game, then people would know how to play the game to reach the success they are searching.
For example, I can not figure out why a striker in Premier league is a top striker while his attributes are OK, but compared to many other strikes worse?! Shooting 84, speed 83, dribble, control, and header are above 90, but that still is interesting, as this is not the best striker (on paper) in the league.
Is there something one is missing?
Is it just random?
The random factor should be there I guess, but should it be that decisive?
I think the next step should be introducing “player morale”, that dictates the players behavior, influence on team, performance of self and team, and so on, and that might somehow slow down the player trading behavior of many managers.
It’s simply is unreal to trade 10 players each season, specially if we are talking top class players.
All changes are good, at least for learning.
/BK
I believe you are all missing one very important point. There is no cheating going on atm :). Trust me when i tell you, there was plenty going on…..
I’m sure we can balance things out, maybe with some small tweaks, but the economy change was just very very needed. If you only knew the headaches all that cheating provided the Game Masters now and then. I’m sure things will all turn around.