Posts that Hopjes is monitoring

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

I must admit I still have some issues with the new way players develop. I simply think it takes to long time to see any changes. I think it sounds reasonable that players shouldn’t peak at age 21-22, but it shouldn’t take so many experience point in order to grow. I will refer to my own player Davide Brollo (again): He has played a total of 108 matches 11 of these has been official games. He may or may not have star potential, but he does not grow. It’s like time stands still with this guy. I generally like the idea of a skill pool with 10-20% percent being released every season, but if you can’t get the players to improve even with a coaching level of 10 and a heck of games something is wrong.

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

my vote goes to YES.

abracos

damago

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

I like Philipp’s suggestion because the maximum potential is only reached at the age of 24 – 26. I think 22 is too soon to reach a maximum potential. Then everybody will search for new young players and you can’t sell old players anymore. And with old I mean players above 27. This is not good for the game I think.

So when the age of reaching maximum potential is 26 y.o. (or older) then I vote ‘yes’ otherwise ‘No’.

In this system we also need extra skill improvement by experience for older players. This makes it more interesting to buy or hold older players.

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

YES: Parag, Philipp, Alexander (3)
NO: Sly, Hopjes (2)

Answering your question Alexander, the player would have 45% of his skill points available for improvement. A team with high coaching would be able to catch up these extra points in a few seasons while in a team with low coaching level the player would probably keep on growing to a later age.

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

A little extra question here. If a 18 year-old player haven’t been played at all and therefore haven’t recieved any experience points is bought, what happens with his potential growpoints? Will he then be able to improve e.g 45% of total skillpoints in one season (15% for each age 16-18) or will he just keep on growing to a later age?

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

Definitely a YES vote from me. Lets bring back the fun in youth development.

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

read above… Hopjes votes NO aswell :)

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

Voting is fine, there is nothing decided yet :)
We plan to have a formal system for voting important change like that, but for now we’ll have to use the forums.
So far Parag and Philipp vote YES and Sly votes NO.

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

Let’s have a vote, since I really don’t like the age idea. I’m ok with the acadamy thing, but after that it should be fair game. I think it’s nice to see a 21-23 year old player increase. It gives more chances to smaller teams to get decent players. This has 1 simple reason. If you know a player will increase more or is more likely to increase from 17-20, those players will never be sold or found anywhere. And if they are sold it’s unlikely they will be cheap and affordable for the smaller teams. In the current way it’s possible a superstar is being missed because he’s 22 but never really played any real matches. Managers could mistake his age for a player that is “done” increasing. This gives way to a smaller team to pick up this player for a decent price and later find out he got a superstar in the rough. PLEASE RECONSIDER THIS CHANGE! I truly think it’s a bad idea and will give a negatice spinoff for smaller teams!

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

welcome back gabriel…
i am fine with what you and philipp have said… in fact i like the idea.

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

Hello everybody, just got back from my trip :)

I like Philipp’s percentages, sounds reasonable. Currently what we have is around 20% for each season on youth academy and around 10% in the following seasons. So we could have 3 different scenarios:
-youth player leaves academy on 16: he will have 20% when he is 16 and 10% in the following years – reaches maximum with 24 years old
-youth player leaves academy on 17: he will have 20% when he is 16 and 17, and 10% in the following years – reaches maximum with 23 years old
-youth player leaves academy on 18: he will have 20% when he is 16, 17 and 18, and 10% in the following years – reaches maximum with 22 years old

If we change to age-based instead of youth academy based we could give around 15% of potential per season until 19 years old (and the player would earn 1.5 times the regular amount of experience points from matches), so when he turns 20 we’d have around 60% of his potential already given. For the following seasons the player receives around 10% of his potential per season, reaching his maximum from 23 to 24 years old, in the average.

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

to underline my opinion of a higher improvement in the first years i’d like to do an example:
- a 16yro youth starts in your academy with 70 in shooting
- let’s say he has 20 points potential (at the end he’d be 90 in sho)
- with training, friendlies and some official matches he improves 60% of his potential in the first 4 years: with 20yro he would have 82 in shooting
- the last 40% potential points he earns in the next 4-6 years (24-26yro)
- exceptions (~1-10% of all generated players) from the norm could be: reversed improved (strong improvement when gets older), improvement till 30 yro, no improvement after 20yro, etc …

in summary: that’s not too much improvement in the first years, but they still would reach a decent skill level to support a minor club etc. – isn’t that more realistic?

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

well… sly, thats just my opinion… i am not going for a personal battle out here… it should be more of consensus… let other players raise their voices too… if everyone agrees with you, i don’t have any problem with that…. but it seemed logical for me that younger players improve faster than the established ones, like they do in real life. nothing more to say in this post from my side :)

cheers…

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

well that’s good! That was the point of the entire youth system change! There are to many superstars right? Well…. let things go as they go now and this will deffinately happen. Problems solved…..

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

Hopjes, we are not saying lets improve younger players astronomically. What we are saying is, let the players improve more than they are doing currently, especially when they are in their teenage. if you calculate properly, that period is only around 3 to 4 seasons from 16 yrs to 19 yrs.
If this is not the case then, no one will develop youngsters, mangers will continue investing in well grown players, which means after some seasons, we will run short of players to replace the current ones. And watch this space, at that time everyone will demand the same thing that i am asking right now…

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

Sorry Parag, I’m not agreeing with you. You say “improving players is much more fun”. Well that’s your opinion :). I think both things can be enjoyable. It’s nice to see a young talents grow, but it’s also nice to find just that right player for just that right price who some how got missed by all these other big teams. Also you say “otherwise I don’t see how litte lower ranked teams can improve”. Please…..I won the league in my 3rd season with a team that just got promoted. I made it to the semi finals in the UEFA cup and the year after I held my own in CL vs some of the big teams out there like Benfica and Getafe. Last season even Lyon WON THE UEFA CUP!. This shows you don’t need the best players to do well. Those tactics are there for a reason Parag. I say keep things as they are now. Don’t forget when it comes to talent there is a fair amount of luck involved. You will never really know if a player will get very good or not.

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

i don’t agree with sly. improving players is much more fun than buying a well established.
if the idea proposed by danilo goes ahead, then, we could go and buy some players aged 17/18 on the free transfers list and develop them to good players. That way teams on with less funds and on the lower end of the table could get more chances of upsetting a well established teams. otherwise i don’t see how the lower ranked teams can improve.
currently there are so many players on free transfers list who will never be given any contracts, who knows things may change. but this should not happen to players who are above 19. (teenage should be the maximum limit)…

For e.g. i bought this player Geoffrey Tesson on free transfer last season as a 17 years old . He has already improved 13 points in around 75 turns. at the same time his main skill has gone from 79 to 82 which is decent for a 18 year old lad. Now, if someone thinks buying players on free transfers is cheating (as i have read some posts) then, so be it. but then with my team income being lower, i only have one way to go forward. and it only natural that player improve more when they are teenager. now if anyone sees anything wrong with that, then it is because they want to have their monopoly in the league.

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

I don’t agree…. it will create a lame spinoff effect that it will be harder and harder to sell people above 20 year old players. I think it’s nice to see 21 or 22 year olds suddenly increase greatly. I’m not likeing this idea at all….

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

i would love that… this is an even better idea…

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

I am pretty sure that the extra experience is based on the youth flag. And yes, they get released based on random factors. But the age maybe an interesting factor too… Here is one more idea:

- 3 x the experience for youths
- 2 x the experience until age 20

What do you guys think? The numbers might not be exactly those, but the idea is to give more experience to youths and also more experience to players before a certain age, even if they are not youths anymore. (not cumulative multipliers)

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

if you check on the “improvement discussion” thread of announcements section gabriel has said “I started with the youth academy cause I’m afraid of superstar youths all over the world as we used to have. Let’s see how it goes, 19 should be fine as well.”
so, i was thinking age 19 must have been the cut off point… and 19 is reasonable too… that encourages managers to give contracts to young players available on free transfers…

that is on page no 7

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

i don’t think that it should depend on status (youth academy) but on age.
[players get released from academy on random factors and not based on their achieved improvement points, right?]

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

Youths are the ones marked as youths in your player list. The age doesn’t matter.

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

He did indeed avance as you said he would :) i agree to give it more time before changes are made.

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

indeed philipp, it is still the same points system. but in case of your youth players, they will receive 2X of the points allocated.
for eg, a normal player would receive 1 point from friendly but for the same friendly youth player would receive 2 points ( 2 * 1).

i am sure all the youth academy players are youth, but i am not certain if players till 19 are still considered youth (when they go out of academies).
gabriel has given a hint in the announcement forum about the definition of youth, so i am considering players till 19 yrs are youth.

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

wasn’t it 1 point for friendlies, 2 for cups, 3 for league … ?
currently i’m ok with the improvement of players. Did you already implement a higher and faster impovement rate for younger player under 20 yro?

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

i have seen a little bit faster development with my youth players, that is for sure.
but as gabriel had informed in the announcement that every youth players would receive 2X the points received by other players for each type of game, i found the above statement a little bit confusing.
For 2 cup games, shouldn’t that be 12 points, since he gets 6 points each for a cup game ( 2*3 points for cup game).
and thus with 40 points for 20 friendlies, that should have been 52 points in total.

On a separate note i have a question. i always have a feeling that system tries to improve the secondary skills more than the main skill. For e.g., i have a midfielder who has developed pretty well on all the skills except his primary skill… his passing is still 84 since turn 61 of 19th season, whereas at the same time his shooting skill has jumped up 10 pts from 76 to 86, heading from 80 to 88 and speed and ball control also have had fair rates of improvements.
And if i were to compare his improvement since the time i took over the club, it goes this way :
Tac 3, Pas 4, Sho 13, Spe 7, Dri 0, Ctr 6, Hea 8

Do you think this is even development? or this is just an one off case… or is it just normal that players have their own development pattern

PS: for future reference, currently it is turn 41 season 20th.

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

With coaching 10 your youth needs around 15 experience points for each improvement (sometimes more, sometimes less). With 2 cup games he earned 6 points and with the 20 friendlies he earned 40 points, a total of 46 points. As I’ve just checked he is almost improving again, he must have improved twice since he joined your team. Each time he improves he earns from 1 to 6 points to be distributed among his skills, so he improved from 2 to 12 points so far.
I think we could wait a little more before changing it again, but if the general feeling is that the system is ruined we can certailny do something about it :)
My first suggestion would be raising the minimum number of points earned during an improvement from 1 to 3…or maybe increasing the odds of earning more points for youth players. Any suggestions?

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

Could you try and tell us something about how much is needed for a skill-up my players are still stuck at their starting skills my most promising youth player with a value of 649.000 and 75 shooting has played 2 cup games and 20 friendlies and no skill up at all, it seems like something is fundamentaly wrong with youthplayer improvement, please give me peace in mind about this, since i still think you totally ruined the youth player aspect of the game.

Topic: Youth grow to slow..?

thanks gabriel :)