Hi Gabriel and Danilo.
Something has to be done with the match engine. It is simply too random. I accept that every team can have an off day once in a while and loose to a team of inferior quality but as a whole, squad skill should have a big thing to say in deciding match result. I will bring two examples from recent CL matches.
PSG – Napoli 1 – 0
PSG – Bayern Munchen 2 – 0

According to a quick glance at the PSG team, the ideal formation playing a 4-4-2 formation would give something like:
95
85 84 84 83
85 85 86 99
87 86

The line-up I can field in Napoli is much stronger than this, and the best 11 in Bayern Munchen is even better. My point is that there must be some kind of bug in the way the system works out the results. Anyway the random factor is simply to big – and it’s ruining the game in my oppinion :-(

Kind regards
Alexander

My 4-0 win vs Brest (top team in France) was also very random :P

Here is my last 14 non-friendly results….very random if you ask me.

69 Paris-SG 2 x 0 Bordeaux Won Ligue 1
72 Metz 0 x 0 Paris-SG Tie Ligue 1
75 Paris-SG 3 x 0 Sochaux Won Ligue 1
78 Nancy 0 x 4 Paris-SG Won Ligue 1
81 Paris-SG 2 x 0 AC Ajaccio Won Ligue 1
84 Auxerre 0 x 1 Paris-SG Won Ligue 1
87 Paris-SG 1 x 0 Angers Won Ligue 1
90 Paris-SG 1 x 0 Strasbourg Won Ligue 1
93 Toulouse 0 x 5 Paris-SG Won Ligue 1
96 Paris-SG 1 x 0 Monaco Won Ligue 1
98 Paris-SG 1 x 0 Napoli Won Champions League
99 Châteauroux 0 x 2 Paris-SG Won Ligue 1
101 Paris-SG 2 x 0 Bayern München Won Champions League
102 Paris-SG 4 x 0 Brest Won Ligue 1

And, based on your suggested lineup, you’d be wrong. In fact, I don’t use my 99 passer, so he is for sale if you value high passers. :)

Alexander, I’m going to give you 5 examples and then let you in on a little secret about your “random factors” comment:
.
Season 20 turn 101: Napoli vs Brest: 4-0
Season 20 turn 110: Brest vs Napoli: 4-1
Season 20 turn 128: Lyon vs Napoli: 0-0
Season 20 turn 131: Napoli vs Lyon: 1-2
Season 21 turn 98: PSG vs Napoli 1-0.
.
Now. You beat me 1st game last season. I’ll let you in on a secret. I found something that worked tactically vs you and I beat you 2nd game. Another secret is that Me, Lyon manager and PSG manager are what you call “friends”. We know each other from Managersim and discuss things. We know each others tactics and way of playing. We try to use this to our advantage to put “france” on the map in Rubysoccer. Now…for me to beat you and then Lyon and PSG (who are friends) …..I don’t consider this random at all. Another thing here is, you paste main stats of players. I thought you were better then that. It’s not all about main stats, all stats are important. When you look at my team I think I’m living proof of that.
.
Now Lyon managed to win the UEFA CUP and get to CL finals season after. Is this random to? To get lucky 2 straight seasons in a row? If you look at Lyon his team you might wonder how he did it? But to call certain things random or luck…..HELL NO! I think you are missing something here Alexander. I’m not trying to “attack” you here. I’m just saying I believe there is more to this game then just having great players. Having the best team doesn’t win you games. Look at Real Madrid in real life….
.
Regards,
Sylvain Dingenouts

Viva La France!

Well, i’m with Alexander and with the french “rat pack” …
First, player are not just to value by their main skill. Second, the success in competitions of a manager should depend on the quality of his players and their fitting on managers personal tactic/strategy. If one found out the perfect fit for his team he should see the result in the match reports: more ball possesion, more shots on goal, better plaer rating etc.

For me, the frustrating part on the current match engine is:
The match report doesnt show any logic in the system. One team with average players rating 9.5, the other with 4.5, 30×5 shots and a 0-1 result. How can attacker get a 10 when they doesnt score in 20 attempts? vice versa when they get a ten they should score 5 times against mminor teams…

I can give you endless reports, not just of my matches, where is absolutely no relation of the criteria mentioned above. Thats too often the case to call it “random factor”.

But i suppose danilo and Gabriel are aware of the problem and try to improve that with the next enhanement of the match engine.

totally agree that something is weird in the engine…. weird results come to often

Hi guys

First of all, I’m sorry if you consider less of me because I only post players main atributes in the post :-) I agree with you totally on the fact, that you can’t asses a player only on his primary skill. No doubts there. But I must agree with Philipp that the game result must be depicted in some way in the match reports which are totally off some times.

Sylvain, you mention that you guys have found out a tactic that works. That’s great, but I have my reservations against tactics being the most important aspect of this game. I understand that there can be different opinions on the matter.

I can relate to the fact that quality doesn’t equal succes – but there has to be some kind of logic here. My intention is not to sound bitter over some CL results – even though I know that’s probably what it looks like. I would just love to see a game engine you can relate to.

Alexander, we have all experienced games where the results made absolutely no sense, but you pointed out two results that included my team. You said the results were random, I proved by showing you my last 14 non-friendly games that the results were not random. Also, I reached the CL semifinals last season. How much luck must I have to get all the right random results in my favour. I guess I also had random results for 3 seasons straight were I won the title twice and now sit in 2nd chasing Sylvain for the title.

I may not have the great players that you have, but I have found a successful tactic that is able to swing games in my favour versus tougher opponents. Managers change tactics all the time when they are playing tougher opponents. The big teams of the world sometimes struggle against weaker teams. Almost every season in every country’s cup some minnow goes farther than they are expected.. Look at AC Milan, not even in CL, and gone from Uefa Cup. Another example of real life is Man City. The owner has spent lots of money on getting “big” players….how’s that working for them.

Listen, I understand your frustration that in “theory” better players should beat lesser players, but, then why have any tactics. Then all we’d be doing is buying players to stock up our teams with the best players. Find the happy medium between players, tactics and everything else is what’s key. Is it perfect right now, no, but it’s not that bad.

Hank, very well said. That’s exactly my gut feeling about all this. And don’t worry guys, we will keep investing as much time as we can in the match engine.

cheers!

Hank you nail it. Thanks your got the point. Finally, because there are a lot of complains from top team with top players, than just can take a defeat with what they have… chew it down….i think i have great players but every season i struggle with small teams, who implement better tactics than me. When my team was so weak, it was a great feeling to beat the top teams…… and i like that….and in the real game, too…..

Hank, my intention was not to downplay what you have achieved with PSG. You are absolutely right that it can’t be, that you are “lucky” every time. Of course not. But I admit that I’ve become a bit resigned by the fact that the tactics department apparently has so much influence in deciding match outcome. To continue on your “real world analogy” – yes sometimes the big teams with great players are knocked out by minnows. But imho I don’t think it’s a coincidence that it’s more or less the same teams competing in the final stages of CL every year. It’s because these teams posseses the best players, not because the field a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 or have certain running patterns ingame. That’s my opinion and I accept that others might feel different. But it’s my impression that there are others out there that might feel something is off too.

True enough…but at the same time ain’t it boring to see the same top teams all the time. Obviously I follow the Portuguese Liga so when Porto won it all, it was great to see. When Benfica (my team) got very far and lost out to Barcelona, knocking out Man U and Liverpool on the way, it was great.

Nah, I don’t take offense to your comments about what my team has achieved. It’s just a game after all. When Dan and Gab put money on the line, then we can talk about it.

Good luck. You still have a second chance to beat me…..will I change my tactics or play the same……hmmmm.

haha, have a look at my post above and then take a look on the latest CL match Napoli x PSG:
http://www.rubysoccer.com/game/match_report/317777

this couldn’t better be illustrated then with this match (report). one team was way better by possesioning, ratings and shots – and didnt won. ok, that happens sometimes in RL aswell, but not that often as in here. Regarding the reported match facts in this case the (PSG) tactics have failed, but at least in this match the luck was on their side ;)

The football gods like me, what can I say……

I told my mom that all that time spent at the other “church” wasn’t worth it, the Glorioso church of Benfica would benefit me one day.

I agree with most of things were said here, it is true that tactics and strategies must have great influence in the game, and players with great secondary skills should play better than players which have only one great main skill…
But I must agree something must be done with the match engine… at least with the ratings players have in the final of the matches… In the match Philipp notice ahead 8 players from Napoli has a 10 rating at the final of the match and the one with the lower rating has 7,3… If Napoli’s players had more possession and more shots and they couldn’t score (even lost) they should not have that rating in the final of the match… That way Napoli’s manager could check what went wrong and make changes…

Regards from Benfica,

Filipe

Bordeaux Vs Monaco
This game could also be a good example for all what u have said above. I don’t want to add any more in that it would just be a redundant summary of what u ppl have said above.

But making any changes to match engine is not everyday’s job and any changes should be discussed well and should be robust. I know Gabriel and Danilo are working hard everyday to ensure the same. With all the job priorities and abrupt bug fixes they have to do almost every day, it is quite possible that updates to match engine may not be as frequent as we may hope.

But then what we should understand is whatever the condition of the match engine, we all are playing on a level field. It is the same engine for everyone. So, lets make the best of what we have at our disposal.

OW WTF come on….the 10.000 time i get screwed over…

http://www.rubysoccer.com/game/match_report/302389

it’s getting hilarious!

Just a comment on player ratings in the reports: I agree they’re not very helpful and sometimes unrealistic, we still need to find a better way to rate players.

An update of the game engine is an absolute must. I dont want to waste time on a game where some mediocre teams wins everything because they found a bug in the system, seriously the tactic options is very limited, so if you by making someone go all forward and make some settings in tackle and passing that makes you win almost every game call yourself a mastermind, you wont get my respect.



A team of mid 80’s shouldnt beat a team of end 90’s more than about once or twice out of ten regardless the tactics they use. Thats just my opinion.

Hi Jakobk, I do NOT AGREE. You have one of the best team. You not winning against lower team becase they set a better set of players and get lucky as well. It happen to me in liga and champions, but i admire those manager of weaker team getting to the top. Maybe the german league is so weak that after winning almost all games, you think your team is on a roll, but when you face some easy team from other league and you strong team lost, you cry an ask for a change in match engine……. If you win the CL you will complain?? or just think your team is the best?? Not winning to me means try harder, match engine needs changes, but is following the right path and giving changes to everyboddy. I´ve seeing post of the best team in Rubby, just when being great team, the loose, move on….
saludos y suerte

jakobk, regardless of the problem in match engine, it is the same engine for everyone of us…
lets try to take advantage of what we have at our disposal. management is to learn the surroundings and act accordingly. lets do the same.

I don’t know how to spell it, but Cattenaccio was like a bug exploit in real life when first appeared =)

I think it is better to experiment with your own tactics than to lie to yourself and say it was due to a bug. Everyone has 11 players and all top teams have for some reason very similar 4-4-2 diamond formation.

But I think it should be clear that if you make 20 shots and score 0 and your opponent makes 10 and scores 1….it might be that you shoot from distance and his shooting is set to “short” or maybe he makes less passes near the opponents goal or whatever !!! Why should it be a bug ? Try to change your tactics against PSG =)

Not sure who it was intended at, but for the most part this thread was about my team.

But to say I’ve exploited a bug is quite the accusation. I have the same tools that everyone has access to. I have access to the same listed players, sale, loan or free, that everyone else has. If you look at my formation, many teams use it. In terms of tactics, I don’t do anything that extraordinary that others can’t do. In terms of strategies, the same thing. In terms of players, well, I do look beyond just the main stats. I used to be a GM in ManagerSim for a short time, so trust me, if there was a bug, I’d be the first to post on here. I’m here to enjoy this game, but it seems others are crying because they can’t win every single game. It’s a football simulation game, not life or death. Adjust your tactics if something isn’t working. Buy and replace players if certain players aren’t working. But to come on here and demand changes to the match engine because you didn’t win, well, I lose all respect for that type of individual. Instead of applauding the successes of lesser teams like PSG, Lyon and Penefiel, you complain that it’s unfair they won anything and the big teams with the best players have to go home empty handed.

Congratulations to Penefiel on winning the Champions League. Your accomplishment should be regarded as a great achievement, and not a “bug in the system”. From me to you, JOB WELL DONE!!

My respects for Hank’s post. Very well said.

And I think you guys will be pleased with the improvements we are planning, not only regarding the match engine. It is like I said in other topic: our first target is to surpass managersim in all areas, not only some of them.

Hey Hank, always causing troubles with your shrewd tactics ain’t you mate.
Ok here is a bit of delayed insight from MS times.
-Tactics do matter. despite the fact that tactics here are not that developed doesn’t reduce the importance of tactics. The recent Liverpool wins against Real Madrid and Scum United (between them those teams had 20 wins in a row) with 4 nets in each game are a good example of what tactics can do.
-Lots of “newbies” rely on the main stats (tackle, passing, shooting) to evaluate a player and tend to overlook “secondary” stats. That’s the biggest mistake you can make and that’s why players like Alexander end up frustrated playing against so seemingly “poor” teams on the paper (I experienced the same disturbance long ago :D). A 95 tackler with secondaries in the 60’s or even 70’s is pretty much shite. He’s ONE DIMENSIONAL.
-On the other hand, an 85 tackler with let’s say an average of 85+ in his secondaries will be much much better, because the “secondary” attributes are what makes him an all-around player (speed, anticipation, positioning, ball control, game reading, airplay etc). So the choice you have to make is to have a line up of unusual hardworking intelligent suspects vs a line up of 2-3 flashy stars and a bunch of nullities. A good questions would be: would you prefer a team averaging 95 in passing but can’t dribble and control, or would you like a team averaging 85 in passing but are great in speed, ball control and drible. How in the world is your 95 passing team gonna take the ball away from the lousy bastards on the others side? :D
-Of course you have to combine players with tactics to enjoy ultimate success :)

You have to be impressed by the intelectual growth of our community. Everytime I come here I see better interactions than the last time. That makes me start to think about investing some time to improve the community tools we have…

well said Dhimitri…

You are right Dhimitri but I don’t think the reason for PSG success is having those all-around players. If you look to Napoli’s main squad you will find most of them have high values in all attributes… The same with Hertha, Byern and Benfica… I believe the reason for his success must be his tactics and I congratulate him for that. That doesn’t mean the match engine do not need to be improved as I said in my first post and I’m happy that Gabriel agrees the rating sistem is not working. Many of my players has a avarege rating superior than 9, even in the Champions league. In the game I lost against PSG 2 of my 3 defenders had a 10 rating… That should not happen when they allow the oponents to shoot 17 times on target… I believe this is being changed and I’m looking forward for the next improvements.

That is really truth Danilo, we have many more people coming to the forum share their opinion. That is good for the game. Sorry if my English sometimes sucks but I don’t practice it much so it is a little mess (little ou much :D)

Regards from Benfica,

Filipe