Must be a bug..
Why is game punishing me for being a non-cheater?
Have you ever seen a player returning to their previous club ever??
Clearly a bug, must be fixed..

Wow, Danilo and Gabriel, I am surprised you really made this.

same rule applied to SS/MS if i recall…

still a bug in my opinion.
rule created because of the cheaters.
still a bug.

its not a bug, you just answered your own questions :)

until they/we find a way to prevent any cheating going on, I assume this rule will be in place… i don’t think its that bad of a rule.

Do you want Robinson again?

i think it should be a 2-3 season restriction on a player returning to thier former club. after that then fair game.

Felix, sure, for 50M I can do that !! :)

BK

i agree with davison.

Charles, I am trying to make a debate dude, how much is enough and how much is too much when everything needs to be considered with the cheaters in mind first, rather than normal players (read non-cheaters).

Imagine doing that in the real life, that everything you can use to harm someone else, will be stopped from being sold/bought. Books are dangerous because if you drop it to someone’s head from the 10th floor you can harm them..

Do you see my point??

We do not need the police in the game.
So what if 5 people try to ruin the game by trading players like cows in the game and getting 1 billion in the clubs?
I don’t care..

What needs to be done is that game should have better logic.
Players going to clubs (or joining to work) with certain managers, should “know” that this manager is a day trader and refuse to go to work for him.

You can build so much logic under the lock so you do not need to limit the game functions because of people trying to cheat, and guess what, people will always want to cheat, because it’s in some people’s nature. That makes the game more realistic. What is not realistic is players (crappy players) being sold for over-price, but people cheating is realistic.

Do you see what I am getting at?

I think there is too much whining about cheaters and then developers need to add so much time to prevent this so other more nicer features can never be build.

If you still do not understand what I mean, then there is no point trying to explain any further.

BK

I understand what you are saying Berhan, but I think most people dont think like that, I know I don’t… I would never be ok if after all the hard work i put to form a fighting team some other guy with a team of players bought from his ghost accounts comes and beats me in any competition. I will accep really good if you win the EPL this season, I didn’t accept losing the CL for Marcos Tadeu as he would never even be in the CL if it wasn’t the cheating. For me, and IMO for the most people in the game cheaters are the most demotivating factor and I would not be playing if there was not a concern about them…

once a cheater, ban via ip perm

ip can be changed easly :(

I understand what you’re saying Berhan, unfortunately I also agree with Filipe.
I’d hate to get all the way to the CL or CWC finals only to lose to a team that cheats…

It’s difficult enough to get to the finals, but once there, it would be nice knowing you have a chance to go head to head with another great club knowing they did not cheat.

I think in this case, maybe Davisons suggestion would be best used. A solution best for both worlds…

I am not saying people should get away with cheating, really.
My concern is limiting the game just to prevent cheaters is going to be bad for the development of the game.

So what if you lose champions league final to a guy who has cheated?

I think that instead of putting effort on such things, the best would be to develop the game in a way that would be impossible to cheat, that is the game itself will never let you cheat.

The “board” will not let you buy crap player for big money no matter how much you got in the club.
The players won’t join your club if they know that you are a trader really.
The players will perform bad when you are buying too many players per season.
Youths will not develop as good while in a club that trades with lot’s of players.
When not playing players (good players) for a certain time, they will refuse to renew with you and go on a free transfer..

There is so much to be done to prevent cheating without limiting the game.
Think about it.

uuh “So what if you lose champions league final to a guy who has cheated?”. Not that many teams make the Cl final all to often. I really think you are taking it to light. You for example has never been in the CL final. Think about finally getting to the Cl final for the first time in 15-20 seasons only to lose vs a manager who has not been playing the game fairly. Then think about that comment again :)

Trust me…. losing a CL final suxx :)

I am not saying people should get away with cheating, really.
My concern is limiting the game just to prevent cheaters is going to be bad for the development of the game.

I totaly agree…

So what if you lose champions league final to a guy who has cheated

Again… I agree…. (and when you lose with a fair player!!!!)

And one more time I have to say cheaters have to be BAN… I don´t know how you know who is cheating…. but if if you know why the cheatrs are not Baned……………….. I don´t understand….

Best regards

On a similar topic though, I think Berhan has a point about putting other mechanisms in place.
Some of which are related to player moral. Back in SS days, too much trading and too many players would affect player moral.
There are definitely other things that can be done to help fair players.

yes player moral is definately needed in this game. managersim had it, soccersim had it. rubysoccer neededs it

1) players whom have EVER cheated should never play this game agian unless via a repeal vote and if allowed to return BE LIMITED to a lower division team

2) 2-3 season prevention of a player returning from a former club. but to forever prevent that happening is in my opinion bullshit .

make cheaters irrelavent because a system is in place to catch them. a transaction board so to speak. have a group of members in place to monitor transactions that they are given in a list like format seeing est value attributes ect and final sale number and the two teams involved.

have a Board overview these transactions and when werid transactions are notice due to the EASY list that is given to these board members that are picked by developers ( id volunteer)
and keep those members secret from everyone on the game so those people cannot be bribed or payed off ect.

why let something hold us back from a great game we play. lets fix this shit and all the issues and lets keep on building

@Berhan
Having a board that blocks transfers higher than players value is again messing with the fair player’s game. I for once have no concern about money in the game so if I see a player like no other in the game I will buy him if I can, even if he’s listed for much more than his value… Also we have seen cheaters that don’t need to go that much up player’s value, just the fact that they can sell any player they want at any time gives them a great advantage. Players performing bad when you buy many payers for season would be terrible for new managers starting in small teams… Restrictions will always be harmful not only for cheaters, I think we need to be careful there…

IMO there are two choices we really have and I explained them in the other topic… having a system where cheaters are punished and kept under vigilance or try to ban them as we can find them…

@Filipe

I disagree, it is not messing with the game when board gives you options/goals and with that some expectations.

The board is already there giving you goals, or you could be fired. I say what if the Value column was simply removed? Just think about it, would it change anything for you? For me it would change NOTHING. I would still know what to ask and bid for a player of a certain caliber.

Well, imaging a new manager, you join a club and the first thing you wanna do is “renew” the team, you see the last manager left you 500M and you really want to spend that, where is the challenge in that one may argue but it doesn’t matter.
Now, nowhere in the world would any club bring a new fresh inexperienced manager, give them 500M and say they want to avoid relegation or go up in the div or whatever. It all comes to who you are.
Board could give you options, and with that comes tools (ie avoid relegation, you can spend X amount, and buy max 2 players), that is a number of challenges when unlocking you could gain x amount of experience points.
I had that think in my game back in 2001. This something that eventually “prevents” cheaters from trying to cheat because it would take them months of real time to accomplish any beneficial cheating. And if they still would do it, they wouldn’t be able to buy crap players for overprice, as the Board would still block that, as it is not in the program. That is not restriction, that is reality from the real world. You as a new manager can not demand to buy any player you want, unless you have a really good reason.

Now, imagine you want to cheat, and want to buy my 35 years old player for 150M. Game “board” then would warn you that that is a bad choice, and suggest that perhaps you could arrange a loan instead. That is NOT messing with your game, that is level of realistic detail.

Look, there are so much things you can do to put this into work. I just am trying to make you guys think outside of the comfort zone for a while.

Now, imagine today a huge alien ship contacted earth, hovering somewhere above a big city, that would change a lot of things for many people, and wouldn’t affect anything at all for some. Still it would be an event.
Changes are the most natural things in life, whether you like them or not, but some things are just necessarily to change :)

Davison, and who is going to play for the 20 full-time employees you wish to employ doing THA, when you have a manager base of 200 or more people??

That is exactly what we do not need, another police.

You can not ban people for life when not knowing who they are, are you saying when registering you’ll need a copy of their drivers license/passport, and maybe two witnesses with a signed document from a publicus notarius?

Then you’ll end up playing game with another 10 weird people. The game type is already very small and attracts not everyone but only people really enjoying these kind of games.

lol new managers not allowed to buy alot of players ? steve bruce Sunderland :D <3

Yeah , and that means he is just nobody given a job to spend someone else’s money by will?

A big profile manager when joining a club will be given more “freedom” but at the end it’s a job like most jobs, it is created by a need, the club needs to change something, if they can afford it, they should get best possible manager, give him a budget and get things started.

well look its simple ban people that cheat make the game more realistic regarding formations , transfer, ect ect

and that works so well, why change something that works, right?!

:)

That objective options is a good idea but I cant see how it will stop cheaters without harming the others, when I leave MU I’ll start some other team and probably all players from that team will leave and all new ones will come, that is something it doesn’t happen in real life but here in the game is quite comon and I think it should continue as otherwise it would be to much painful for new managers to start a team… We can’t have that with the board restrictions you talk about…

@Davinson
Banning managers is not a good solution either, they will start over probably with good teams and make it harder for us to find them… Also with an extreme mesure like that we wont do nothing about managers we have a suspicion but not certain, it would allow small cheating to be done without harm…

I still back my suggestions (on the other topic) on cheaters treatment and re-education but in the end is up to the developers to decide and we have not heard from them yet :D

Filipe, if it would take 3 real months to get into position to where you can make some real good deals (cheating) then I think you’ll automatically lose interest from most cheaters. Not all, some are really dedicated, and that is good for the game, you can then fine-tune all possible “natural” obstacles for them.

If you leave Man U, the biggest issue is not what you do with a new team but what the new manager does with your club, there is the weakness in control. The game could prevent or at least make it very hard for the new manager to ruin things. After you leave, only managers who were in your rankings +5 or -5 in your position, that narrows the possible applicants, having real chance to take over your Man.U. The ranking is already there – use it..

Remember cheaters are mostly looking for the quickest possible road to success, if you make sure that road is never a short one, you can demoralize most of the cheaters. Make them spend lots of time cheating. Then if they are successful with cheating anyway, fine – they spent 10 times more time doing that it is OK.

BK

What you do in your new club will probably good things, renew the whole team etc.

Again, if you make it that hard for cheaters it will also be hard for fair managers… Imagine the 3 moths thing is in place and for example I had decided to go to Hertha when Philliph was fired. As it is said the team has 1Billion in the bank. I would not wait 3 moths to be able to buy who ever I want to make a team… This is an extreme example but you can see the same for smaller teams, if I am a cheater and I start a team from nothing I would have my fake accounts providing all the good youths out there and just buy them for a little less the game values them, enabling transfers is also cheating, I cant see how you can make the board differences what is cheating and what is a good manager reconstructing all the team…

No, YOU wouldn’t be cause you have a HIGH ranking, how hard is this to understand???

This of course is not fool proof, you can one day get tired of playing and take a pause for couple of months and decide to buy a good player for 3 times his worth, even if you have the very best of rankings. That is the hard part to control. Also quite impossible to predict really.

Also mind that having player value column, makes it easier to defend some high transfer prices. An OK striker with 90 shooting and decent secondaries is not worth 100M even if his “natural value” suggest he is worth 150M, period. No matter who says he is worth that money, it is not true. That’s why I mean that by removing the value column, people will learn and value players of certain skills to be worth something and THAT is really the market price, not a suggested calculated value.

If you were a cheater or not so high ranked manager really, then you wouldn’t be able to trade players, you’d get lower expectation to build a reputation then allowed bigger and bigger budgets, when the rankings rise.

Besides, this is not a chat session between me and you, so I was hoping much more participating parties, I guess they are busy cheating or anti-cheating :)

BK

i’m busy trying to figure out how i’m going to beat Rui… i don’t see it happening lol!

back on topic, i think its important to have Danilo or Gabriel weigh in here.
We’ve talked so much about what can be done to improve or whatnot but we haven’t heard from them in a while.

They can give us their 2 cents and we can continue our conversation. they can also shed some light on if some of the suggestions mentionned might be used in the future or not.