As I’ve been saying lately there are some important changes planned to the players improvement system. The purpose of these changes are, among others, to balance the game a little, reduce the number of 19 year old fully improved star players and the friendly frenzy done by lots of teams in order to improve their young guys. Let’s go directly to the point.

-coaching department change: instead of making a player improve more skills at once it would make the players improve faster. The average number of skills improved at once would be the same for all teams. A player who plays once every 3 turns, from a team with 0 level coaching would reach his maximum potential at 30 years old, in the average. With coaching 10 this average will drop to 23. Reason: coaching 10 is a huge advantage nowadays, it makes lots of your players become stars and the player market is less interesting;
-youths from second division will start at the same level as first division youths, but will improve slower while their teams are on second division. Reason: balance second division teams and be more realistic…if a country has high quality players it makes no sense most second division players have poor quality;
-friendlies would make the player improve until a certain level, after that only official matches will make him improve. It’s the job of the manager to figure out when friendlies are not useful anymore. Reason: stop the friendly frenzy, make improvements more realistic, make loans become an interesting option when a player is not ready to play in your first squad but still needs to play official matches to improve;
-friendly information will be displayed on player match history. Reason: there is no point in hiding it, friendlies won’t be enough to fully develop a player;

Of course we’ve already received other related suggestions, but this package seems to be complex enough and we expect it to make things become more interesting. It doesn’t mean other suggestions will not be implemented, all of them will be taken in consideration for continuous improvement.

Any comments? ;)

Cheers!

when will this be implimented?

Oh and another question. For the future, the playing of officials will improve a player further then letting him play friendlies.

But you can always sub a player to let him play 5-10 min in an officials. I assume this also helps to improve.

My question is, how long does a player need to play ATLEAST to get some decent improvement when subbing in an official match? 5 min is harly enough, but maybe 30 min is just as good as playing 90 min? I think it’s fair that 30 min in an official is just as good and EVEN BETTER then playing a 90 min friendly…..

Friendlies and official matches will probably have the same effect on player improvement, the only difference is that after a certain point the player won’t improve playing friendlies anymore. The minimum time required on any match is 35 minutes.

My intention is to start working on these changes soon, probably in the beginning of next week.

Cheers!

Wil a player playing 35 min in an official improve the same amount as 90 min in a friendly?

We’ll make no difference between official and friendly matches regarding how much a player improves, at least for now…so from 35 to 90 minutes in any match type is the same.

These changes sound good and the game will be more realistic. Now there are teams with all
< 20 year old 90+ players.

And that is the thing that makes the game quite unrealistic imho.

I really really like ruby soccer and it’s unique for me, i never enjoy an online game that much because the best part of being a manager is youth development for me, however it’s bothering to see that it’s that easy. Teams are full of superstars under 20 players and that doesn’t make any sense. I even saw a player with 100 keeping when he was 18 _

As far as i know, there is a hidden ‘potential’ for every player and as he plays matches, player fulfills his potential. In real football, players usually reach their momentum in later stages like when they are 26 or something. That’s how the life is for most of the players -except superstars like Messi or Rooney. Greatest players we all know played their best of football not when they were 20, remember Zidane, Beckham, Giggs, Henry.. list can be endless. Sure thing they shown a glimpse when they were young but they were not >95 in important skills. It takes time to reach that point.

I believe we should have something similar here: Make it harder to reach high levels of skills in early ages. Players should learn in time, with playing official games, high level games, like cup games, champions league etc. Implementation of experience may effect a lot of things imho.

Also it’s not realistic to see youth players are so similar. Not all youth players are that same. Some youngsters should be crappy, should have 40 tackling if defender for example. That’ll make 60 tackling defender youngster more valuable. See the point? Decrease overall player qualities in general and superstars will be harder to achieve.

In sum, this is my suggestion list regarding player improvement:

1- Make it harder to reach high levels of skills in early ages.
2- Make youth player skills more random, less average.
3- Players should learn in time, until ~28, with official and high rank games.

Nice post ekxl. Regarding your suggestions:

1 – definitely gonna do this
2 – interesting suggestion, we’ll discuss that; remember that with more countries more crappy youths will appear
3 – official matches will be required to make players reach their maximum

Cheers!

For the first suggestion of ekxl you can make a ratio:For instance:
- youths <20 => max development till 40% of their maximum skills
- players <22 => max development till 50% of their maximum skills
- players <24 => max development till 65% of their maximum skills
- players <26 => max development till 80% of their maximum skills
- players <28 => max development till 100% of their maximum skills

Of course you can multiply this ratio with a potential percentage. There need to be some talents that already reach their maximum skills at a young age but not so much as there are now.

I’m playing a few online games and i believe the most important thing is ‘random’ factor.

Random factor makes things interesting and more attractive. If you can calculate ‘everything’, it’s not a game, it’s just a math problem. That’s one of the very good points of ruby: We don’t know which young player will be good.

Thorpedo’s suggestion is good, he really got the point. But even this percentages should be different for all players. Some players should be able to reach their max. potential in the age 22 while it takes till 30 for others. Argentinean star Saviola added something to his football after his 20? Not so much i believe. He’s an ‘early boom’er, reached his momentum early. But for Zidane, it took a bit more than others.

I don’t know much about coding and i don’t have any idea how ‘potential’ factor coded but if thorpedo’s suggestion (with flexible random factor) can be added for that data, it’d be great.

Also it’s nice to be able to in touch with administrators! : )

Cheers

I believe the “playing officials” should be important but different then said here. I don’t think it’s very realistic if a player improves in friendlies and then after a certain point will only improve in officials still and not with friendlies anymore. I think thats not very realistic. I think a player should simply improve faster or more with officials then when playing friendlies, just like in managersim. It matter if you played vs a good opponent with your youth or let them play international games. International experience in real life football does a player wonders. They grow more and get more experiance from me. I think that should be the case here. Just making players stop improving through friendlies isn’t good enough. I think you should be rewarded for playing young players in official games. It brings the risk of bringing down the skill level of the overal performance and you might end up losing a match or 2 :)

This way you have to make a choice, increasing youth stats and lose a match or win the match but don’t increase your youth stats……

It makes sense Sly, I’ll consider this option too. The main reason for making they stop improving was to reduce the number of friendly matches played nowadays. But there are other ways of doing that, like making players unavailable if too low on stamina.

Cheers!

I don´t think it´s a good idea to make a player unavailable to play a friendly. I think you should simply increase the chance of getting an injury when low on stamina. I´ve seen players in this game with like 5 stamina. Just make it so that if a player has below 50 stamina he has a 1 in 3 chance of getting injured when below 30 he has a chance of 2 out of 3 to get an injury. And just make it known that if a player has below 20 stamina he has a chance of 95% of getting injured, so it will have people rethink the fact of playing all those friendlies.

Right, it makes sense. We already have a higher chance of injuries for low stamina players, but obviously it’s not high enough ;)

33%, 66% and 95% ? Come on…just implement morale and make them unhappy if they have to play 40+ matches a season, for example, or with low stamina

Very good point. I think a balance between morale and slower improvements on friendly matches may get us there.

Nice, morale is already in our plans and we could definitely use it! Soon I’ll reformulate the new ideas for the player evolution system and post it here.

I also think that morale should not drop when players play important matches, but imagine Kaka having to play lots of friendlies during the season…he will be furious

Update on our plans:

-Coaching will be changed so that it does not influence how many skill points the player earns at once, but how often he improves
-When improving a player will earn from 1 to 5 skill points
-Different match types will give the player different amounts of experience points: 1 for friendlies, 3 for league and cup matches, 4 for UEFA Cup and Sudamericana, 5 for CL and Libertadores and 6 for Club World Cup
-In order to improve the player will need something around 15 to 60 points, depending on the coaching level and team division
-Second division youths will start at the same level as a first division youth. The difference between divisions will be the amount of points necessary for the next player improvement, as stated above
-Starting on 16 players will receive only part of their potential every year, 10% in the average so that their maximum can be reached around 25 years old. Of course there will be players receiving more or less potential per year allowing some to be young stars and some to reach their maximum near 30.
-Keepers will stop improving tackle and shooting while the other players won’t improve keeping
-After reaching his maximum a player will have increased each skill by 20 points, in the average, therefore the average total points increased in all skills will be 120 for keeper and 140 for everybody else

Let me give an example to make sure everything is clear. Consider a new youth defender, 16 y.o.. Suppose he receive 10% of his potential points, it means he will have a total of 14 points to increase on his skills. He plays some matches during the season and improves 3 times, earning 2, 4 and 5 points, respectively. There are 3 unused points that will be carried over to the next season. Now he turns 17 and receives more 5% of potential, 7 points. He has now reached 15% of his total potential points and has 10 points to improve. Let’s say he plays some matches and improves twice, 5 points in each. He has no more potential points left for this season, so even if he plays enough matches he won’t increase his skills until he is 18 y.o. and receive more potential points. And so his career goes.

I think we’re getting better now, thanks to this interesting discussion and your suggestions. If you guys have any questions or comments about the ideas above please don’t hesitate in posting a reply ;)

Cheers!

when will this be officially implemented?

Cool changes thumbsup

I’ll start as soon as I’m done with the “titles won” screens for managers, teams and competitions ;)

nice suggestions. looking forward.

two remarks:
what’ll the logic for the decreasing of older players. currently it’s ~1 point each skill down per season for all >30 year olds. with the new additions a some players shouldn’t decrease until they are ~33/34 yo. or just in speed.

also there could be an extra skill like cleverness, leadership or routine that boosts by many league or international matches and winning trophies (and the age). That’s an important addition to big teams in RL. Captaincy could be directly related to this …

The logic for decreasing old player skills will remain the same for now. Every 12 turns all players over 30 have a chance to decrease 1 point in 1 skill. The older the player, the higher the chance. A 31 y.o. player has 10% of chance, a 32 has 20%, 33 has 30% and so on. So a 33 y.o. player will have lost, in the average, 3 or 4 points in total, which should be ok.

We are planning to have something like player experience, where an older player would influence positively his teammates. For example, we could make a experienced defender give a plus 1 bonus to everybody else’s tackle during the match. This would make them important additions to the squad and would reduce the number of 30+ players being thrown away.

Now, that’s a very good idea.

from when on this new improvement system will be active?

and, will this just take effect from then on new generated youths only? In case: How is the further increasement of existing players planned?

No estimates yet. I’ll post updates here as I work on it, haven’t started yet.

The new system will affect existing players also, the difference for them is that all their potential points will be already there no matter the age and the coaching level will start affecting how many match points they need to improve instead of how many skill points they improve at once. Those who have already reached the maximum level defined in the current system won’t improve any further.

Cheers!

is their a limit of improvements? with the “old” logic it was 39 times …

No, the plan is to have no limit on the number of times a player can improve, the limit will be his born potential.