I’ve done some research in Brazilian Serie A (medium ticker)and I think that is something that should be analised:

I don’t know if it’s happening in other leagues, but I’ve noticed that in Brazilian Serie A, the formations that are hardly (or less) used in real soccer are functioning better than the usual ones.

Defensively, I’ve seen a lot of teams playing in 5-4-1, 4-5-1, 5-3-2 and even 6-3-1. The last one, besides really really unusual, is doing a lot well in America-RN. America won even the game against Palmeiras, which is a lot better than the other ones (It hurts to say that since Corinthians is my favourite team).

For those who don’t like playing defensively, the 3-4-3 have been the most used and funcional formation.

So, why the usuals 4-4-2, 3-5-2, 4-3-3 and their variations are not working that well, since they should be the most balanced ones? Is this happenning in the other leagues?

In time: In the last game I’ve changed my formation to 5-3-2 and my team played far better than it was.

I think the reasons for that are:

-the players tend to go towards the goal instead of using the field sides
-there is a lack in the sense of marking, “free” players don’t mark other “free” players, only the one with the ball, if he is near
-no crosses or headers
-too many players in a zone is probably making it easier to take the ball from the opponent

We’ll work in the match replay and make it available for everybody before changing the match engine. I’m pretty sure we’ll have good suggestion from everybody based on what you guys will be able to see :-D

Cheers!

I’ve been noticing that unusual formations aren’t the only problem. Some of the game’s most successful teams play with traditional formations, but using forwards on every position of the field, with some midfielders on the mix. Other teams are even more avantgarde :>, playing with 10 forwards.

For instance, it seems that playing 3-4-3 with 3 midfielders – 4 forwards – 3 forwards works better than the same tactic with 3 defenders – 4 midfielders – 3 forwards. Seems obvious that something is not right :)

Once I suggested giving penalties to players playing in the wrong position (an attacker playing in the midfield or defense, as you mentioned). Some agreed, some disagreed and I abandoned the ideia, even though it still makes sense to me.

Cheers!

I think that, with or without penalties, a forward playing as a defender should always be weak… otherwise, it’s just a question of time until everybody stops signing defenders and midfielders :)

In my opinion they should take a penalty just like a Left/Right/Center outside his “natural” position…

Cheers…

Sounds good to me, my ideia was to give a penalty like a left player playing in the right, should work. It will probably help everybody in selling defenders and midfielders :-D

Cheers!

I’d expect severe penalties for playing a player out of position. (A as a M… etc.)
Even worse penalty than playing him on the wrong side. (L on R)

I’d also like to see “DA”, “DM”, “MA” for players capable of playing more than one position.

Meanwhile… playing players out of position should still be penalized.

Hi guys!

I agree with your idea, but what happens with players like Stefano Sferrella? He is A L, tackle 55 passing 81 shooting 63. Would he be penalised for playing as midfilder? I think is quite obvious he should play as midfilder.

In my opinion we need to do something to prevent people playing with a totally unrealistic 10 forwards team, but we have to keep in mind this kind of exceptions.

The problem is that I don’t know how we can do it :-)

Cheers and thanks for trying to improve the game every day!

Dave: players with multiple positios are in on our plans :-)

Torres: Maybe the solution is not generate players like Stefano Sferrella, I mean, an attacker wouldn’t have shooting almost 20 points lower than his passing or tackle, it could be like 3 points lower at most when the player reaches his maximum potential…the only disadvantage I see on this situation is that you would know in advance how much the main attribute would increase in some situations, like if we had already this rule you would know that Stefano would reach at least 78 in shooting…

Another possible solution is never let the main attribute for the player position be lower than the main attribute for the other positions or even train the player to play in other position when we have added coaches to the game.

Cheers!

Maybe you can work with positionchanges. I mean a player like Stefano Sferrella, a striker who is much better on the midfield than in the attack, can have a position change after a certain period and become a midfielder ( If there are DA, DM, MA, etc he can become a MA). But this only happens when a player is much better on another position then his normal position.

So the players will increase their skills as they do it now and we can’t predict this evolution on the basis of the other skills.

I don’t know if this is possible because I don’t know anything at all about programming a game.
It’s just an idea :-)

Cheers

attached to this post, in FastTicker, Germany, Hertha BSC Berlin if you look at their team have a total of 27 palyers in the Senior team, out of them 19 are Forwards, 2 goalies, 3 defenters, and 3 midfielders, in his win against FC Schalke 04 (tick 105) he had a 3-4-3 out of the 11 players he had 8 forwards on the field, 2 of them (Gustavo Leite, Juan Sanz Niño) got a rating of 10 playing as midfielders, Hertha BSC Berlin won 2-1, the next match against VfB Stuttgart (tick 108) he again had a 3-4-3 and again had 8 forwards on the field Braulio Blanca (a Forward) got rating of 10 as a defender, and Gustavo Leite (a forward) for a rating of 10 as a midfield, Hertha BSC Berlin won 4-0, the match against VfL Wolfsburg (tick 111) he had the same formation with 8 forwards on the field and this time Braulio Blanca, Manuel Salas, Juan Sanz Niño got perfect 10 plaing at a wrong possition, this time Hertha BSC Berlin won 2-0. Hertha BSC Berlin is currently 1st place in 1. Bundesliga ( and will be champions….again) and I think that there should be some kind of penalization, in real life a team can NOT do very good if he only has the keeper, one “true” defender, and one “true” midfielder,, with 8 forwards on the field it just doesnt make sence that Hertha BSC Berlin has done SO GOOD with that kind of gameplay. and I hope something is done so that it is fair for the rest of us that do plan out a line-up with the correct players in their spot and try to make the game more real.

PLEASE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

We will have penalties Simon, don’t worry :-)

The reason the team is performing so well is that most of their attackers are not “real” attackers, as they have poor shooting compared to passing or tackle, but I agree that we should do something to make them play worse if playing in the wrong position, as we do for players in the wrong side.

Cheers!

If i remember correctly, the penalties for playing out of side are -1 and -2. For playing out of position i think it should be from -5 to -10, if not in all stats, at least in the main ones (tackle, pass and shoot).
In real life, a player can perform well if its out of side, a DL can play at average to good in the right. But we can’t expect a ML to play better than average at DC, p.ex.

Cheers,
Ricardo

That’s a point to be discussed. The penalties for side goes from -1 to -3, I was planning to use -3 for position, but Ricardo is the second person to suggest -5 and -10 today (the other one is a co-worker who talked to me instead of posting in the forums). Let’s hear other opinions while I start doing something about it.

Cheers!

As it was an easy change I’ve added position penalties. A player playing in the wrong position will receive a -3 penalty in all attributes. We can change this value depending on how this discussion goes on. I’ll announce this change properly.

Cheers!

thanks Gabriel, a -3 penalty for all attributes seems fair. thanks for making this game better every day!!!

Hi

Like I said to Gabriel at work. I think it should work like this:
midfielder in defense= -3
midfielder in attack= -3
attacker in mid= -3
attacker in defense= -5 or more
defender in mid= -3
defender in attack= -5 or more

It could be different numbers. But I think somehow we should be able to change a player position. Probably once we have training. We would put a player to train to play in another position.

Thx

That’s my ideia Samir, use training to change a player position.

Cheers!

i dont know if i agree with this.

i use to play with a defender that has good passing skills in the center of the field (M -1 position).

I like to have a defender there because he has good tackle and its nice to get ball possession from there.

I will agree with these penalties when we have DM’s and MA’s that can play all around!

cheers

Yeah, sounds like a good moment to work on DM’s, DA’s and MA’s :-)

Cheers!

Hy

I think that 3 point lost it too much. It could be only in seconds atributes, not in th first. Thats my opinion.

Cheers
Stramazzi

Hi all,

I have been playing this game acording to users habilities, I mean, if an attacker has better defending or passing skills I use this player as defender or midfielder.
I think is not realistic to penalice a player when he is playing in the position where he have better skills. For instance, my player Gilberto Bocinos A C 21 36 75 81 72, I use him as defender or midfielder cause he have better stats in def and mid. Is not real to penalice a player when he is playing in the position where he was made for.

Best regards

Vicente

I agree with Alexandre. I also use a defender with good passing skills on position M-1. But I also agree that there must be penalties for the wrong positions. There are also midfielders with that kind of skill like my player in fastticker Buonagura for instance. He has D82 M74 A77 so he is a perfect DM.

I suggest for now the same as Samir but when there are DM, DA and MA a penalitie of -5 or maybe -10 seems reasonable to me.

Cheers

I’m the manager of HERTHA BSC BERLIN, who’s obviously playing not fair when lining up “8” A’s.

I’m just playing with what the engine/creators support. Gabriel, i asked you some time ago if i should take care of not letting an A playing D. But you mentioned that “D, M, A” are just an “orientation” but a player is not dependend on a position (back, midfield, front).

So if you take a closer look on my squad, my defenders are A’s but have ~79 in tackle and just ~72 in shooting. So are they A’s ? My midfielders have ~78 in passing and ~75 in shooting. So are they A’s?

1. System allows it and supports it, so don’t change it from one tick to another
2. Players can develope from native A’s to a decent M or D by practice
3. If there is a stricter rule on vertical positioning in the future – we need
….a) DM, DA, MA
….b) some transition period (for teams like mine) to re-structure the squads (sells/buys), e.g. 1-2 seasons OR/AND immediately transformation to MA, DA, DM of the current players

—> DON’T THINK ABOUT PENALTIES FIRST, BUT ABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Personally, i agree that there should be dependencies of favoured position and played position.

But please don’t change every 1-2 seasons basics of the game engine, that’s exhausting. Sum up all featured that should be changed for some time and then … implement.

IN THIS CASE:
- Please don’t change the logic (penalties for wrong posiotions) within the next ticks, that’s unfair to all teams that play by the rules since then (and build their teams by this)

- Think about a transition to DM, MA, DA first … You have changed lately the sides attrbutes for all existing players

- Why don’t you implement now the MA, DA, DM attributes to the existing player ?!
—> Best case: Based on there their real skills … tac & pas>sho = D, M or DM, pas&sho>tac = M, A or MA

Cheers from Berlin

I understand the concerns of Alexandre, so my suggestion for now is from -2 to -7, in all stats.

Something like this:

D playing M-1 = -2 points
D playing M0 = -3 points
D playing M+1 = -4 points
D playing A-1 = -5 points
D playing A0 = -6 points
D playing A+1 = -7 points

Same for A’s, depending on how far away they are from their original position.
M’s would lose at maximum 4 points, with this system.
I think it would be nice until we have double positioned players, just don’t know how hard it is to implement, specially considering it is a temporary thing.

After that, i’ll stay with the -5 to -10 to everyone.

Cheers.

@ Philipp Leibeck:

You’ve said it all. Couldn´t agree more.

Hi,
It’s unfair to implement this change by the end of the season.

Saludos.

Well, I have to agree that it was a drastic change to be made without giving a period for everybody to adapt their squads, but the reason I did that right now is that the seasons are coming to an end and everybody (me included) would have to face the same problems from the next season start. I see 4 possibilities here:

1) postpone the change
2) regenerate all players positions based on tackle, passing and shooting
3) implement DM, DA and MA and apply that to existing players where it makes sense (not much fair, as this kind of player will have a higher value and demand a higher wage)
4) do nothing, keep the -3 penalty for wrong positions (the exact value may change in the future)

I’ll probably take some action tonight (unless option 4 wins), so please let me know your opinion. And don’t be mad at me :-D

Cheers!

I choose for option 3 because I play with a defensive midfielder on M-1 and when there is a regeneration this player will become a defender. With option 3 he stays a DM and I can still use him on my midfield.

The higher wage, it will be so. The difference won’t be that big.

Cheers