I think it should be: implement 3 and postpone the penalties for some days. Then we can sell/buy what we need.

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I believe the penalty applied to a player should take into account not only if he is a M playing in a attacking position, but also if it is on A/-1, A/0 or A/+1.

For instance, the A L with 81 passing cited somewhere in this thread should receive a penalty for playing in a midfield position, but if he is in M/+1 (serving probably as a link between midfield and attack) the penalty shouldn’t be as rough as if he was playing in M/0 and so forth.

This should prevent playing with attacker in defense position, but not prevent talented managers deploying a talented attacker on a attacking-midfield position to gain advantage in a tough game.

The game should strive to be fair, but not penalise smart, bold managers.

This can be done even if when DM, MA are implemented, since a MA can be played on A/-1 or a M/+1 but shouldn’t be as effective if played on M/-1.

Also, I think we shouldn’t be worried so much with managers playing weird 3-6-1 formations and the like because its one of the coolest things of the current formation system is to allow this kind of thing and also reflects reality. No real team plays in a perfect, in-line 4-4-2 formation.

I agree with Samir. You can postpone the the penalties till the end of the season. Then we can play the european championships and the last leaguegames with the team we normally use and in the meanwhile we can search for new needed players for the next season.

option #1 (till season tick in fast ticker) PLUS option #3.
option #2 makes no sense if you plan to implement DM, MA & DA on a long term …

QUESTIONS:
What method do you plan to regenerate all players positions to DM, DA and MA (based on tackle, passing and shooting) ?

—> WILL THE HIGHEST SKILL DEFINE THE POSITION (D,M,A), and if the 2nd highest skill is just ~5% max. lower then he’s a hybrid (DA,DM, MA) ? WHAT’s THE RATIO FOR A HYBRID?

—> WILL IT BE DYNAMIC ? like, if tackle was the players worst skill he was an A or M and when he developed in tackling superb he becomes DA or DM …

I think that option 1+3 is the best to be fair.
it’s not fair to penalice a player that is playing in the place where he have the best stats.

Regards

Vicente

To Philipp:

If we regenerate already using DM, DA and MA the criteria would be:
-defender with passing greater than tackle and shooting => DM;
-defender with shooting greater than tackle and passing => DA;
-midfielder with tackle greater than passing and shooting => DM;
-midfielder with shooting greater than passing and tackle => MA;
-attacker with tackle greater than passing and shooting => DA;
-attacker with passing greater than tackle and shooting => MA

For newly generated players there are 2 options (to be discussed after this topic’s discussion ends, I’d go with the first one):
-after generating the player position (D, M or A) and attributes give him an extra position if he ended up in any of the situations mentioned above (e.g. attacker with tackle greater than passing and shooting would become a DA)
-while generating the player position give him the chance to have 1 or 2 positions, and generate the attrbiutes accordingly

There are no plans to make it dynamic, what could be interesting is allow the managers to use coaches (when implemented) to train a player in an extra position.

Keep voting guys, it’s always very helpful :-)

Cheers!

1+3 sounds fair to me.

I think that if you implement the 3rd option (adding DM DA MA), you should maintein penaltys somehow, even more, I would suggest higher penalties

Hi

I agree with the logic Gabriel put there. Also, I agree with Julkan. Once we have that multi-position thing, the penalties should be a little higher, like 5 instead of 3.

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1+3 … after 3 implemented think about penalties

Looks like option 3 is an unanimity and most of you want the change to be postponed. That’s what I’m gonna do, I’ll remove the penalties until next seasons start and implement multi-positions in the meanwhile. We can now discuss penalties if you wish :-)

Cheers!

Gabriel thanks for your patience and explanations!

I just want to put this in consideration.
in your logic a player is “born” with a certain position (A, D, M) and gets a hybrid just if a second skill is higher than his native position skill (e.g. M=passing). I think this perspective is too limited.

What’s with a native “M” with 98 in passing and a 85 in shooting (Mr.X)
or a native “M” with 76 in passing and 74 in shooting (Mr. Y) etc.

Both players tend to have the ability playing upfront: Mr.X is a superb shooter and Mr. Y’s shooting skill is nearly as good as his passing … IMO both could/should be MA’s – in your logic both would be M’s …

Good point Philipp. Maybe I should include DM, DA and MA while generating the player position (with less probability than D, M and A), and generate the attrbutes accordingly.

Changing the subject a little, I was thinking about having also MD, AD and AM. In practice they would be the same as DM, DA and MA, respectively, being able to play in two different positions without penalties, but for us developers the first letter would represent the original position and would be used internally for things such as player value calculation, CPU teams logic, where the players would be displayed in the UI. I hope you guys don’t have any strong objections about it, as having this slightly redundant extra positions would help us a lot in introducing this new concept. :-)

Cheers!

What are the qualifications needed for a DM/MD;…?
Why players like Calvaresi D83 and M76 and Priolo D79 and M71 and A70 are no DM. Cause Figueiredo D74 M81 and Buonagura D74 M82 are MD. (fastticker – Genoa)
The difference between the main skills of these 4 players is practically the same.

When a player has the chance to have 2 positions?

Cheers

That’s what i meant above:
I have player Juan Sanz Niño (A) with 78 pass & 79 shoo, now he’s still an A ?!

Please tell me what’s your logic behind this whole topic …

You have a native D with 80 in tac & 80 in sho. He doesn’t have to be a great scorer (this should co-depend on other factors than shooting), but he’s able & interested in shooting – and that is just possible in front.

So what does this “A” stand for? The abbility to score or the abbility play in front ?
What’s the connection between the skill and the position (D & tac, M & pas, A & sho)?

Roberto Carlos= native D, good shooting/scored, tac > sho, but obviously a DA in real life ; in this game logic: D
Kaka= native M, great shooting, pas=sho —> MA; in this game logic: M
There are probably better RL examples for my point …

I’m sorry, I think I wasn’t clear enough. For existing players I did not worked on any complex logic to change them into DA, DM, etc, I simple looked for players whose main attribute was LOWER than the secondaries, for example, a defender with 78 tackle and 79 shooting became a DA, but if shooting and tackle were 78 he would still be a defender. This logic is only for existing players, for the new ones to be generated as DM, DA, MD, MA, AD or AM you can have situations like you guys described.

Cheers!

Alright, thanks for the update, Gabriel.

What’s the specified penalties table from next season on?

We’ll start with lower penalties…if the player is playing in the wrong position he will receive -3 in all attributes. That may be raised in the future to -5 or to that -5 to -10 range that was suggested. If we do that we’ll make sure it’s properly announced.

Cheers!

“-3” means no matter where the player is used ? If an A plays M+1 or M-1 or D-1 etc he gets “-3” for all possible positions beyond A-zone ? Or will an A gets “-1” in M+1 and M, “-2” in M-1 and D+1, and “-3” in D and D-1 …

- 3 no matter where the player is used, that will probably change later :-)

Cheers!

Sorry guys!

Now I don’t remember if penalties are currently being applied or if they will start next season.

Cheers!

They are already on.

cheers!