English:

Despite being very active in the game I avoid to be active inside foruns, but I’m starting to think that the situation in this game will be unsupportable in a short time, so I came here to give some analysis of the current game and do my suggestions for possible improvements.

I believe that the rules for the youth improvement and the rules for the current rankings need to be modified. Below I will make my analysis of the current situation and also give some suggestions.

Youth
IMO, currently the most critical point is youth players improvement. In my view (correct me if I’m wrong), the rule for the creation and development of youth players are quite simple. For the creation of new players is considered only the ranking of your country, and then the split of this players are made inside this country, randomicaly and equally.

Regarding to the development the rule seems to be also too simple. More you play, More you evolve, creating only more weight between friendlies and oficial matches. Doesn’t matter if it’s against a controlled team or not, at home or away, against the best or worst ranked team, against the best or worst manager, against teams from the first or second division, if the coach is the ranked in 1 or 1000, or if the opponent is from the best or worst ranked country.

As I realized (but i’m not so sure about that), these youth players also have a maximum number of improvement points per season. If they reach this limit in 20 games, no matter how many games you gonna do after that, they won’t evolve a single point in this season.

With these rules and with some managers “getting smarter”, they start to control some teams from countries with a lot of “BOTS” or in a weaker leagues, they go shopping trying to hire some youth promisses, for free or in the transfer market. Even taking some risks, they will be sure that they can reach their full potential of these players, because can put them to play as many as possible in their leagues, because even being a “weaker” player, he still will be highly competitive in these leagues.

These teams will play with seven, eight youth players against absurdly weak opponents and they will have the same improvement point than an Valladolid x Tigers in a world cup final.

Examples of teams that already have realized that(or might benefit from) we have a lot. We have Tigre (probably the first one to notice that and take a great advantage of being in a country that receives good youth players), Chacarita and Talleres in Argentina, Cobresal in Chile, AGOVV and Ajax in Holland, German teams (with a lot of “BOTs” in first division), MVD in Russia, Galatasaray (probably the one that use it in this moment) in Turkey.

The teams that already realized this advantage normally use 20 or more players per season, most of them youth players, while teams in a stronger leagues can’t have this luxury. They will use 15 to 18 players per season, and from these 18, will be 2 or 3 youths.

In strong leagues, such as Brazil, France, Spain and England, the only way to renew your team betting in youth players is simply giving up the championship match and hoping to not be relegated. You can also choose to be relegated and stay there for 5-6 seasons to renew totally yours squad and return with some chances to survive (I already made this in the past).

Português:

Apesar de ser bastante ativo no jogo eu evito ao máximo ser muito ativo nos foruns, mas estou começando a achar que a situação dentro do jogo ficará insustentável dentro de pouco tempo, venho aqui fazer uma análise atual do jogo e dar minhas sugestões para possíveis melhorias.

Acredito que as regras para o aperfeiçoamento dos novos jogadores, bem como as regras para os Rankings atuais poderiam ser modificados. Abaixo eu faço uma análise do porque e também envio algumas sugestões.

Jovens
Acredito que o ponto mais crítico atualmente é a questão dos jovens jogadores. Ao meu ver (me corrijam se eu estiver errado), a regra para a criação e desenvolvimento dos jovens é bem simples. Para a criação de novos jogadores é levado em consideração apenas o Ranking do seu país, sendo a divisão destes novos jogadores feita “ao acaso” dentro dos clubes de cada país.

Quanto ao desenvolvimento a regra parece ser ainda mais simples. Quanto mais joga, mais evolui, criando apenas um peso maior entre amistosos e jogos oficiais. Não importa se é contra um time controlado ou não,em casa ou fora, se o time é o melhor ou pior do ranking, contra o melhor ou pior do seu país, contra equipes da primeira ou segunda divisão, se o treinador é o número 1 ou 1000 do ranking, se o adversário é do melhor ou do pior país do ranking.

Pelo que pude perceber (mas não tenho tanta certeza quanto a isto), estes jovens também tem um número máximo de pontos de desenvolvimento por temporada. Não importa o número de jogos que façam, se eles atingirem este limite com 20 jogos, não importa se fizerem mais 20 jogos, eles não irão mais se desenvolver nesta temporada.

Com essa regra e com alguns managers “ficando espertos”, estes passam a treinar times de países com ligas fracas ou cheio de “BOTS” e vão as compras de jovens promessas, sejam livres ou de jovens com potencial no mercado. Mesmo correndo riscos, eles terão a certeza de que poderão atingir o potencial máximo destes jogadores, afinal poderão colocá-los para jogar o máximo de jogos possíveis nas suas ligas, pois mesmo sendo jogadores “fracos” estes ainda serão altamente competitivos nestas ligas.

Estes times poderão jogar com 7, 8 jovens promessas contra adversários absurdamente fracos e terão os mesmos pontos de desenvolvimento que Valladolid x Tigres em uma final de mundial.

Exemplos de times que já perceberam (ou que podem vir a se beneficiar) desta vantagem não faltam. Temos o Tigre (provavelmente o primeiro a notar isso e tirar grande vantagem por estar em um país que recebe bons Jovens), Chacaritas e Talleres na Argentina, Cobresal no Chile, AGOVV e Ajax na holanda, clubes da Alemanha (cheio de BOT na primeira divisão), MVD na Rússia, Galatasaray(provavelmente o que mais use isso) na Turquia.

Os times que já perceberam esta vantagem utilizam 20 ou mais jogadores, destes a maioria de jovens promessas, enquanto times em ligas fortes não podem se dar ao luxo disto, usando entre 15 a 18 jogadores, e destes 2 ou 3 como jovens.

Em ligas fortes, como a do Brasil, França, Espanha e Inglaterra a única saída para renovar o seu time apostando em jovens é simplesmente desistindo de disputar pelo título e torcendo para não ser rebaixado. Pode também optar por ser rebaixado e ficar por lá de 5 a 6 temporadas renovando totalmente seu time (eu mesmo já optei por isso).

 

English

Ranking

The manager and team rankings also seems to be equally simple. Home win has a weight, away win has another weight. Losses and draws following the same rule, but ridiculously higher weight than victories. With three defeats and three draws seems that you lose all the points that fought whole season to earn.

Also seems to not consider all those weight details mentioned for youth players.

Português

Ranking
O Ranking de técnico e times parecem ser igualmente simples. Vitória em casa um peso, vitória fora outro peso. Derrotas e empates seguindo a mesma regra, porém com um peso absurdamente maior que as vitórias. Com 3 derrotas e 3 empates parece que você perde todos os pontos que lutou a temporada inteira para ganhar.

Também não parece levar em consideração os mesmos detalhes mencionados para o desenvolvimento de jovens jogadores.

 

English

Now, the suggestions. ;)
I believe that for the rankings and Youth improvement become more fair, we need to include inside these systems, some weight for countries, competitions, teams and managers, giving more weight for strongest and less weight for the weakers.

As the competitions are divided between South America and Europe, I will also do this division for some cases. So here’s some suggestions:

(A) Weight for countries (considering the current ranking of countries):
France, Brazil, Spain and Argentina – Weight 4, (1)
England, Portugal, Germany and Uruguay – Weight 3; (0.75)
Italy, Chile, Paraguay and Turkey – Weight 2; (0.5)
Netherlands, Russia and Greece – Weight 1. (0,25)

(B) – Weight for Competitions:
World Cup- Weight 8, (2)
Libertadores and the Champions League (Playoffs) – Weight 7; (1.75)
Libertadores and the Champions League (Group stage), Sulamericana and Europe League (Playoffs) – Weight 6; (1.5)
Libertadores and the Champions League (Qualify) Sulamericana and Europe League (Group Stage) – Weight 5; (1.25)
Leagues (First Division), Cup (Quarter, Semi and Final), Sulamericana and Europe League (Qualify) – Weight 4; (1)
Leagues (Second Division), Cup (fisrt stages) – Weight 3; (0.5)
Friendlies – Weight 1. (0,25)

© – Weight for Teams (It would be necessary to create filters in accordance with divisions by Ranking countries, South American and European):
(C1) – In Cups and Leagues:
1st to 10th in the country – weight 4; (1)
11th to 20th in the country – weight 3; (0.75)
21th to 30th in the country – weight 2; (0.5)
31th to 40th in the country – weight 1; (0.25)
(C2) – In international competitions (considering only the ranking of teams in this current competition):
1st to 5th in the competition – weight 4; (1)
6th to 10th in the competition – weight 3; (0.75)
11th and 16th in the competition – weight 2, (0.5)
17th to 22th in the competition – weight 1; (0.25)

(D1) – Weight for Coaches
1st to 10th in the country – weight 4; (1)
11th to 20th in the country – weight 3; (0.75)
21th to 30th in the country – weight 2; (0.5)
31th to 40 th in the country – weight 1; (0.25)
(D2) – In international competitions (considering only the ranking of managers in this current competition):
1st to 5th in the competition – weight 4; (1)
6th to 10th in the competition – weight 3; (0.75)
11th and 16th in the competition – weight 2, (0.5)
17th to 22th in the competition – weight 1; (0.25)

(E) – Weight for Games
Away – Weight 4. (1)
Home – weight 2; (0.5)

(F) – For results
Win – Weight 4: (1)
Draw – Weight 2; (0.5)
Loss – Weight 1. (0,25)

(G) – Weight Controlled Times
Controlled – Weight 4. (1)
BOT – weight 2; (0.5)

Português

Agora vamos para as sugestões. Rs
Acredito que para fazer tanto para o Ranking, quanto para o sistema de Jovens se tornar-se mais justo, precisamos dividir todos os países, competições, clubes e treinadores por peso, dando assim mais valor aos paises, ligas e times de maior importância.

Como as competições são divididas entre América do Sul e Europa, farei também esta divisão para alguns casos. Então segue abaixo algumas sugestões:

(a) Peso para países (considerando o Ranking de países atual):
França, Brasil, Espanha e Argentina – Peso 4; (1)
Inglaterra, Portugal, Alemanha e Uruguai – Peso 3; (0,75)
Itália, Chile, Paraguai e Turquia – Peso 2; (0,5)
Holanda, Rússia e Grécia – Peso 1. (0,25)

(b) – Peso para Competições:
Mundial – Peso 8; (2)
Libertadores e Liga dos Campeões (Playoffs) – Peso 7; (1,75)
Libertadores e Liga dos Campeões (Fase de grupos), Sulamericana e Euroa League (Playoffs) – Peso 6; (1,5)
Libertadores e Liga dos Campeões (Qualify), Sulamericana e Euroa League (Fase de Grupos) – Peso 5; (1,25)
Ligas (Primeira Divisão), Copas (Quarta, Semi e Final), Sulamericana e Europa League (Qualify) – Peso 4; (1)
Ligas (Segunda Divisão), Copas (fases iniciais) – Peso 3; (0,5)
Amistosos – Peso 1. (0,25)

© – Peso para Times (Seria necessário criar filtros no Ranking para termos divisões por países, sulamericanos e europeu):
(c1) – Em Ligas ou Copas:
1º ao 10º no ranking do país – peso 4; (1)
11º ao 20º no ranking do país – peso 3; (0,75)
21º ao 30º no ranking do país – peso 2; (0,5)
31º ao 40º no ranking do país – peso 1; (0,25)
(c2) – Em competições internacionais (considerando apenas o ranking dos participantes da competição):
1º ao 5º no ranking da competição – peso 4; (1)
6º ao 10º no ranking da competição – peso 3; (0,75)
11º ao 16º no ranking da competição – peso 2; (0,5)
17º ao 22º no ranking da competição – peso 1; (0,25)

(d1) – Peso para Treinadores
1º ao 10º no ranking do país – peso 4; (1)
11º ao 20º no ranking do país – peso 3; (0,75)
21º ao 30º no ranking do país – peso 2; (0,5)
31º ao 40º no ranking do país – peso 1; (0,25)
(d2) – Em competições internacionais (considerando apenas o ranking dos participantes da competição):
1º ao 5º no ranking da competição – peso 4; (1)
6º ao 10º no ranking da competição – peso 3; (0,75)
11º ao 16º no ranking da competição – peso 2; (0,5)
17º ao 22º no ranking da competição – peso 1; (0,25)

(e) – Peso para Jogos
Fora – Peso 4. (1)
Casa – peso 2; (0,5)

(f) – Para resultados
Vitória – Peso 4; (1)
Empate – Peso 2; (0,5)
Derrota – Peso 1. (0,25)

(g) – Peso para Times Controlados
Time Controlado – Peso 4. (1)
BOT – peso 2; (0,5)

 

English

Now, lets see how to apply the weights for youth development and ranking.

Lets consider that the best we can get is 1000 points per game (in international competitions we have a “bonus” and may go up to 2000 points), then we could consider the points as follows:

- If is a friendly (considered only for youth improvement and not for ranking): 1000 x (b) x (e) x (f) =? In this case, the maximum that could give a friendly would be 250 points. 25% of a league at its maximum value and 12.5% of would give a World Cup. - If is World cup: 1000 x (b) x (f) x (g) =? - All other competitions: If it is against against a controlled team: 1000 x (a) x (b) x © x (d) x (e) x (f) =? If it is against a BOT: 1000 x (a) x (b) x © x (e) x (f) x (g) =?

For rankings we can use the same rules, creating some conditional in case of a tie or a lose.

Português

Agora, vamos a aplicação dos pesos para desenvolvimento dos jovens e para ranking.

Consideremos que o máximo que podemos conseguir são 1000 pontos por jogo (competições internacionais sendo “bonus” e podendo dar até 2000 pontos, então poderíamos considerar os pontos da seguinte forma:

- Se for um amistoso (considerado apenas para melhoria dos jogadores e não para os rankings):

1000 x (b) x (e) x (f) = ??
Nesse caso, o máximo que um amistoso poderia dar seriam 250 pontos., 25% do que daria uma partida de liga no seu valor máximo e 12,5% do que daria uma partida de Mundial.

- Se for um Mundial:
1000 x (b) x (f) x (g) = ??

- Todas as outras competições:
Se for contra um time controlado:
1000 x (a) x (b) x © x (d) x (e) x (f) = ??
Se for contra um BOT:
1000 x (a) x (b) x © x (e) x (f) x (g) = ??
Para o Ranking poderíamos utilizar as mesmas regras, criando algumas condicionais em caso de em caso de empate ou derrota.

Bom, já escrevi demais e acho que se alguém ler a metade disso já será um milagre. Rs
Espero ter ajudado em algo, e se precisarem de alguma ajuda, seja para explicar melhor estas idéias, ou qualquer outra coisa que seja para melhorar o jogo, estou a disposição.. ;)

 

I think the admins are planing to change the youth improvement system so its a good thing you posted now, the may use some of your ideas… Do the translation because it is an important matter and everyone should read and discuss.

About the ideas I liked most of them, not sure if manager ranking should influence players development, we need to make the game easier for new managers, not harder.

I would suggest another factor to be considered, player’s stamina, a 100% stamina player should have more chances of improving than a 3% (with 3% stamina a player should be dead lol). It would bring some balance to the players development based on friendly matches…

Cheers

 

Interesting but as Felipe said we need to think carefully about new managers and don´t make life easier for top teams.

Just one point about current system:

Players need a certain amount of experience points to improve and the only way to earn these points is playing matches, at least 35 minutes. The number of points required for each improvement depends on their team’s coaching level (around 60 for level 0 coaching and around 15 for level 10). Players on second division teams need an extra amount of points, around 10% more. Different matches give the players different amount of points, as follows:
-Friendlies: 1 point
-League and National Cup: 3 points
-UEFA Cup and Sudamericana: 4 points
-Champions League and Libertadores: 5 points
-Club World Cup: 6 points

 

The weight for managers and team rankings is one way to make the things more interesting and give more benefits when de weaker play against the stronger team or high ranked manager. The weaker in this case will receive more improvement points than the strongest and the weaker is the only one that can get full improvement points.

In the other side, when an strongest team play against a weaker manager or team, even if this team is 100% sure to win, he won’t receive full improvement points and maybe the weaker will receive more points even losing the match.

So, the main idea is to be more balanced and give more chances to the weaker.. ;)

 

Other suggestion that I have, is to give more space in youth academy. As you increase the quantity of coaches, or create an new cost for improve your youth academy the number of youths will be increased.

Like that:

5 choaches, you have right to keep 5 youths in your academy, 6 coaches 6 youths and so on…
or
Without improvement cost, you have right to keep 6 youths in your academy, with 100K have 7, 200K 8, 300k 9 and 400K 10.

Doing this we also need to increase the limit to 24 senior + 10 youths = 34 players.

This will give biggest chances for those managers that want to bet in his youth academy and will have more possibilities to have better players in the youth randomic rule.

 

[quote Welington]In the other side, when an strongest team play against a weaker manager or team, even if this team is 100% sure to win, he won’t receive full improvement points and maybe the weaker will receive more points even losing the match.

So, the main idea is to be more balanced and give more chances to the weaker.. ;)[end quote]

Uhm, everyone should have the same chance in improvements. Play a certain amount of matches and they grow, simple as it is. And what you say last about give some chances to the weaker is just plain bullshit. Every manager has the same resources to do there job, buying/selling/loaning or getting players from FT. Why make it “easier” to players who don’t do the job right, dont invest to much time?

 

Some interesting ideas that we can use when re-designing the system. Let’s keep the discussion going :-)

 

That’s the idea Gabriel.. Most of guys here wants to make this game better!!

I’m here to help if you want (or need). ;)

 

This might be good for cheaters control and manager business orientation:
TRANSFER MARKET LIST where you can keep all tracks on any kind of transation world wide.

salud y puerta del sol!!!!!!

 

I would like to see the number of youth at a club setup like the following:

Coaching Level 0 = 1 youth player
Coaching Level 1 = 2 youth players
Coaching Level 2 = 3 youth players
Coaching Level 3 = 4 youth players
Coaching Level 4 = 5 youth players
Coaching Level 5 = 6 youth players
Coaching Level 6 = 7 youth players
Coaching Level 7 = 8 youth players
Coaching Level 8 = 9 youth players
Coaching Level 9 = 10 youth players
Coaching Level 10 = 11 youth players

Plus also giving the manager more control over what youth player he gets.

 

Too radical. However, perhaps give an extra youth player for having level 10, so to have it more value for the 100k upkeep you pay extra compared to level 9.

 

Congratulations Welington

I agree with you in everything… mainly in the influence of manager ranking in the development of new youth players…

I would like to warn that with the actual system the most of the teams in the weak countries only have south american players (mainly Brasilian and Argentine).

I hope that the ideias of Welington wil be applied.

I only coment this topic now because I only read this today, i think that all the players should read this.

Best Regards

 

We can’t start basing potential growth vs quality of the opponent. Because at some point, top teams won’t want to play vs weaker teams. Top teams will only play top teams (as was the case in Soccersim) I think the current system pointed out by Ulisses seems the fairest and the one that is equally beneficial to everyone. Easy to understand and use.

I think 11youths is too much…

Agreed with DaMaGo, a “Players recently transfered” list will really help everyone see the flow of the transfers and possible cheats. I think this is one implementation that won’t affect anything in the game except cheaters:) and will bring a lot more to the game itself by allowing everyone to see who is being transfered, at what price, to whom etcetc However, this list should be world wide and not country wide. Seeing ALL players being transfered will allow for greater balance. I think implementing it only country-wide will only be partially beneficial to everyone and its true potential will only be unlocked if everyone world-wide sees this list.

 

In the league matches you play with weak and strong teams…. thats the point I think…. and you will have allways other strong teams to play the friendlys….