Impossible to buy 1 good player in the game without paying a crazy wage
Impossible to have a good young in youth academy
Then impossible to have a better team and to have some projets to improve my team

And now ?? Should I stay or should I go ??

I don’t want to critic your work but I just want to say what I feel

The crazy wages with transfers are a problem indeed. I don’t know what you can do about it.

But for good youth you just need some luck. I had 2 seasons without one very good youth player and at the moment I have 2 80+ youth players. One already has a contract now.

Your feedback is very important Renaud! I guess the economy is the way it is because teams don’t have other things to spend money with. I was planning to reduce all stadiums to 10,000 (probably with a compensation for poor teams) and start charging for ground maintenance (not much, of course). That would decrease dramatically everybody’s income and make people spend money in increasing the number of seats in their stadiums.

Answering your question, I think you should stay, specially to help us making a more balanced, interesting and fun game for everybody!

Cheers!

Thanks for all your done for the game, for your reply and to understand my position
Hope to play a real managing game soon
Cheers

I have been discussing with other players and the biggest benefit for rich teams was the 3 tick rule in transfers… The first team to offer contract has to wait 3 turns, a team with a lot of $ can enter in negotiations any time to get the player… It’s like checking the game once every 3 ticks to get all good players! This is reflected in wages which are going to the top…

Manual to get all good players with high wages:
Surprise is nice an I lost a few players because it’s really easy to get a player, all you have to do is make an offer and check how many turns are left… Then make final offers for players in last negotiation turn, with preference for 5 minutes before end of tick…
It’s cool because you know THE CLUBS that have offers in the decision point and you can work how much you offer to overcome everyone…

I can leave an idea, something like this, when a player is set for transfer only enters transfer list in the next tick and stays there for sale the whole tick! If you want to change the bid value or remove the player you can do it before the end of the running tick to take effect in next tick. I player is sold, bubye player…

That way you could buy players 6 times a day and wages get a bit lower, and also prevent most cheating…

Cheers…

I still think the wages are that high because the next year we can reduce them… If we can´t we would not offer too much.

Agree with reduce the stadiums seats, maybe not so dramatcally…

Also think you should stay, the game is yet too young, and I think the developers are making lots of progress.

And I don’t belive you have worse youths tham me, that is impossible :D

Hugo Celso that is the way it happens in real life… Some small teams starts negotiatons with a player and in the end apears some rich club and take the player…

Also don’t think that happens much here in RS… For exemple, Tomé Cunha, free transfer brasilian FT list, 3 ticks to go and already are there the main buyers (Liverpool, Académica, Cruzeiro)… I almost bet he goes to one of them :D

Cheers

But in real life a small club can make an undeniable offer to a good 16-21 year old player and get him. In ruby soccer a moderate manager that makes a great offer needs three turns for the answer… Should need one!
And there are no small teams or great teams in ruby soccer, only poor or rich teams, players don’t look for a status, only $… The gap is really big, and CPU teams are still buying players in the order of millions!
It doesn’t matter for the richest teams how many years of contract to reduce lately, they are already offering 3 years to get advantage and maximum wage!!! And $ want be a problem… The day you can improve stadium is the day their stadiums will be improved to maximum unless values impossible for the other 100 teams are applied! And their offers will continue!
A enormous gap was created in the beginning and the game should be balanced after rules changes. This 3 tick thing was (and is) not an improvement to make the game more real, is an improvement to anti cheat that benefits the richest teams!
Rich teams still can make big offers but they would need an eye on the market every 6 turns a day instead of 2/day, and that’s more real life…

I don’t bother to compete with them but I didn’t resell more than 10 players or so and I sell them for their value, some teams keep selling in the orders of millions! If this is to be an economy sim then I am in the wrong game and I will make my way to be the first to achieve 1.000.000.000$ (I believe no one is this far yet) instead of getting a good league position, start playing in 3-3-4 and resell resell resell!

Cheers

I think your complaints are fair Hugo. We were afraid the economy could reach such level. We’ll study the situation and see what can be done. Suggestions from everybody are welcome, as always :-)

Cheers!

Well, I’d prefer to be completely wrong :( one thing works very well in the three tick mode, the transfers in the start of a new season! At this time it’s the most fair rule ever!
It could be a good idea idea to have different rules in this transfer window (first 8-9 ticks)…
Please consider CPU teams behavior. They don’t sell and they often loose good players, they also buy expensive players! They should deplete free market and take advantage of their youths to have at least 22 player teams and restart friendlies with the lowest players, they have to earn value instead of wasting what they have, do their renewals work well?… They should not compete in the transfers with human players, here machine still is no match for the man :)
To balance the game you can also pick on contract renewals, often players enter market as free because teams just lost them, a week on vacations is enough to loose players most times! Why not offer contract renewal almost any time? Create a small gap between player acquisition and then leave the offer new contract button there, it’s easy I think and it’s more real life too… And take out the button when the player has already negotiated a new contract instead…
This could also be extended to youth players, if a youth is real good the team should offer him a contract right away! It’s cheaper to have a youth to the squad and with luck get another good one, than playing with the youth and hope to have the contract offer possibility on time! If market get flooded with youths promoted and then fired leave them in the youths for a minimum time but with * like a renegotiated or something.

Good luck

CPU teams are really awful in negotiations, I must agree. We didn’t spend much time on CPU teams, we tried to focus on human managers. We’ll see what can be done to improve their logic, like improve their offers to players, use youths on friendly matches, and better evaluate players in a whole before deciding whether or not to buy or sell.

About losing players for not renewing, well, regular players can have their contracts renewed 36 turns before the contract end, and youths 12 turns (here is the worst problem I guess). Holiday mode will help everybody on this subject. The ideia is that when you enter holiday mode all your contracts will be renewed automatically and youths will be hired (unless the team reaches the 30 players limit). Another solution would be allow youth signing earlier as you suggested, and I like this ideia :-)

Cheers!

Hello,
getting good players is extremely difficult especially in medium tick.
I have one or two suggestions that can, i think, be easily implemented in order to low the crazy managers that offer 80 thousand wages or more… and increase the number of players you can hire

I remember when i got Sporting in medium, the previous manager left the team with negative funds.. still i managed to hire players that where free transfers. This should not be allowed. this way i would not find people with 1 million wages and more still hiring players.

Another thing, if we have the 3 tick rule implemented, i think people in the same network should be able to hire players from one another.

There should not be a limit in wages because a manager may have twenty 5K players and offer a crazy wage to 2 or 3 star players, has it happens in real teams.

A more advance rule, if a team has negative money, the players should don’t get paid, so, automatically they should be available for free transfers :) maybe a rule of 9 ticks in negative money to put the players in free transfer.. this way the managers needed to be conscious about wages.

this would be a easy way to fix the wages problem.

Regards

I liked your considerations Tiago, I’ll add a few enhancements to our list. The only problem here is allowing same network trades, multiple account users could still benefit from that. We still need a better monitoring system on transfers before allowing that.

Cheers!

One ideia came to my mind, probably from Football Manager. The Board could make a certain quantity of money available for transfers to be used during the season, and a quantity to be used to new wages. I’ll give an example.

Let’s say a team has $10M. On season start, the board tells the manager he/she has $7M available for transfers, and $200k for the sum of the wages for new hires. The manager hires a $2M player paying a 20k wage. After that the balance would be $8M, being $5M available for transfers and $180k left for new wages. If the team sells a player during the season, a percentage of the sold player transfer value would be added to the money available for transfers.

What do you guys think?

Cheers!

I think it is good, if the values are at that levels. Maybe more transfer money and less wages… I think the problem is not on the transfer list players but the free transfers, specialy in the begining of season…

Regards

I must say i’m really happy to see that wage rising is the current problem with Rubysoccer, economy problems just show us how much the game has evolved since its first release. :)

Wages are rising this fast because there are tons of millions that people just don’t know what to do with. Money has no real value if there’s no place to spend it, except on wages. Having 500.000 every home match, we can pay 250.000 in wages and have a balanced economy. 250.000 is an average 20k to each first squad player, and considering that sometimes we get “cheap” youths from the academy, it isn’t hard to pay 60 or 70k to a better player that you see on the free transfer list.

We need to take money out of the game in any possible way. Giving dividends to shareholders at the beginning of each season (20% of the club’s total, FM style maybe), reducing the tickets to half their price (or making it user-defined, like i suggested in the blog days), stadium expansion (but not Managersim style, something that costs moreor we’ll get to Fulltest problems where a dozen of teams reached 100k seaters and there was no way to fight their economic capacity), and academy investment (where the amount of money you invested would have a word in the quality of the youths you’d get, but not something like “pay 500k every week and you’ll get hundreds of good players”, just improve the chances of getting good youths, instead of 1 good every 20 that get promoted, make it 3 or 4… as the number of them, make it from 6 to 12 like in Managersim) are good ways to take money off the game. I liked the “Agent fee” option that was included in Challenge 2, but i’m aware that it wasn’t something that everyone agreed on.

Cheers.

Also, as it is now, players can stay in the same team forever. I don’t think that’s realistic, except in some very particular cases. That way, when you have a good player you will never let him leave, except when he gets too old or when he retires. I think there should be a limit of years for the player to stay there (like 6-8 years, or 2-3 contracts), and after that he would refuse to sign a new contract, saying he wanted a new challenge.

Maybe that could be done around the club’s success or lack of it. A player is supposed to feel good when he gets to play most of the matches and wins trophies. But even if they play a lot, if they never win anything, and if they feel like they’re way better than the rest of their teammates, they feel like they can do better and start looking for ways to improve their career.

Still on the previous matter, the wages, if first team players started to feel unhappy (therefore playing worse) because someone came to the club earning a lot more than they did, and asked for more money (similar to what their new mate is earning) to become happy again, i think it would make people think twice before offering crazy amounts of money, because it would mean that sooner or later they would have to pay the same to at least 7 or 8 of their first team players.

I support the idea of not letting the managers let the balance go negative.

The way that a manager decides how to apply the money, in my mind, is up to him.

The idea of letting the players go into the market after the finances get negative, could be implemented like the three tick rule. The gap between the end and the start of the new competitions where you can get real money is big, so everyone needed to be conscious of that.

I am trying to give ideas that are simple for you guys to implement at this stage of the game. I understand that the game needs to keep evolving in order to keep us interested.

I really like the international competition ranking list, i can see that Portugal move up 2 places in Europe and is first place in the third season :)
I would really like to see something like that being applied to teams and managers, in order to spice up the competition inside the national championsips and internationally.

A larger range of statistics would be nice also, something like Win/loss Ratio of player-disposition-tactic, number of shots, passes all this kind of stuff that i think can easily be fetched by you developer guys, the larger work would be in creating the GUI to show this info.

The rules could be discussed by everyone… who comes to the forum :P The simplest way to evaluate a manager would be by win/loss ratio. And in the same table the Squad value for everybody to know.

I like the simplicity of ruby soccer, and i hope it continues that way.

Regards

I just know one think:
Reduce the stadium to 10.000, will make many many managers go to bankrupt, and not fair, and i think the game will die
Many poor clubs, just are poors, because their managers. Why the "rich one,s must pay for it?? That,s all

One of some solutions is that ALL the stadiuns be full in all season games
Why dont try it?

I agree with the stadium reduction, but also that it wont resolv the economic problem… It may only be resolved with a reset… but there shuld be better rules to prevent this to happen again…

Cheers

There are so many good ideias here I’d like to have more time to spend on RS development :-D

We’ll do our best guys, keep them coming!

Cheers!

Filipe….“..prevent this to happen again…..” happen what. Nathing is happening
Are you one of that managers that wasted all the money, and now want to take back the money that you wasted off?
Redution of stadium, is not a solution, because the players are asking a lot of money to renew their contracts
My player,s wages are about 150.000 a week, for example, and with a 10.000 seats stadium..means bankrupt, soon or later
Now the maintenance coast more than one friendly
No one reason the guys that are complain about it….

manuel rocha, if you realy want to know i have 11M in Beira Mar, and wages cost me $418,891 p/week. I think I have everything under control. so you see if the satadiums are reduced to 10k I will be afected, and yet I think its a good idea. If we reduce the income managers will think twice before paying a huge wage to a player, the same would happen if the player doesnt accept reduce his wage the next year. The same if the board doesn’ allow you to spend more than “X” in wages for season. I think they are all good ideas.

Yet I think they wont resolve the situation we are aguing here. Rich teams have already make huge montants of money before the implement of this rules. So they will continue to get all good players paying them much more they would ask. So I think the solution its restart the game again, but only after all mesures are implemented.

Thats only my opinion.

Cheers

If you have 11M in your bank account with those wages that means you are earning money selling players… If they were sold to other human players that’s fine by me, but many players are sold in the order of millions to CPU teams, many got rich this way, and this is not equal to great fantastic management!
Some ideas here could represent an excessive regulation in case of a restart, after the squad limitation and the 3 tick regulation transactions were reduced! Things would always be different with only these rules, but other rules, with high importance are coming, like the vacation mode.
I believe much of the speculation happened because of clubs wasted value, and I mean players not money. Many appear incorrectly in the free transfer market, because people went on vacation and lost half the team, because people cheated and enter a new team wasting those players in the market, because CPU teams are specialized in loosing players, buying unopportunistic offers and not improving youths or B squads, and more reasons exist probably!
I think you should focus a bit in solving CPU teams behavior first of all, managers resell because market is flooded with good players all the time! If good players were to be rare they would be correctly sold, not free! And squads would buy to keep them and get results, not sell all you can and get a new team like is possible in the first 3 ticks of the season!

Cheers

Yes, I sold some players, to human players, and I’m sure they don’t regret the money the pay… I think I have sold one to a CPU team for 1M… never more thant that, but I have already seen some of the cases you are saying…

Yet I think the main problem still the free transfer market. I get the most of my players there… The solution can be on the holyday mode, but only if the time to fire a inactive manager has been reduced, maybe to a week. Because some managers simply wont put the holyday mode if the had give up of the game…

Cheers

The time to fire an inactive manager hasn’t changed yet, but it will, 1 month (current) for managers on vacation and 1 week for the rest. And I agree that will help managers not having lots of players free transfered by accident.

Cheers!

I think the market has auto-adjusted by itself, and I don’t think limitating amounts we can spend during season a good rule. If we are the managers, we know how to spend and when spend the money.

I support the idea of reducing stadiums capacity for further develop, and I also support ground maintenance and other costs but don’t forget our budget still don’t have sponsor and TV rights income. That’s an important way of capitalization for the clubs, specially when we got stadiums reduction.

Lobba

You’re right Fabrizio, TV rights and sponsorship will be added as a source of income. Maybe we should do that before reducing the stadiums. We’ll see.

Cheers!

In reply to the very first post of this thread:

I have had some cracking youth players come through.